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Thread: Repeal the 8th (Second Thread)

  1. #3811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    I wasn't aware that GPs provided abortions anywhere.
    Only one to my knowledge is Australia.

    In South Australia, there were 241 abortions out of 4,439 through GPs in 2015. That was only 5.4% of all abortions. (page 55)

    https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/w...78685a-m13MJ0U

    In Western Australia, 2.6% went through GPs in 2015. (page 30)

    https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/~/media...rt-2013-15.pdf

  2. #3812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    I wasn't aware that GPs provided abortions anywhere.
    I reckon at least 70% of our medical professionals will want nothing to do with abortion.

    Figures compiled by the Italian government show the percentage of gynaecologists objecting has jumped from 58.7% in 2005 to 70.9% in 2016.
    We appreciate the move by the Government today and remind ourselves that it is a bail-out by taxpayers for the banks. Pearse Doherty

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    Quote Originally Posted by MsDaisyC View Post
    And yet here's a big ole post extrapolating Repeal the 8th (Second Thread) - Page 378 ! Live Births:Abortions =/= percentage.

    They are liars and this can be backed up by facts. Breast cancer, child abuse, depression, Nurse Noel, etc etc
    Iím a prolifer. Are you excluding me from your sweeping generalization?

  4. #3814
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    So it doesn't include miscarriages or deaths in utero - as I said.



    The funny thing is that you wreck your own arguments all by yourself :


    Why does this matter for the UK but you expect people to take you seriously with your bits and pieces of information gathered here and there from various sources?
    You are something else.

    The no. of Irish women travelling is directly from the British government's own report.

    The no. of Irish women travelling to the Netherlands is from their own Ministry for Health report which you can see here for Ireland (2011-2016 on page 29).

    https://www.igj.nl/binaries/igj/docu...+16-1-2017.pdf

    You're welcome.

  5. #3815
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsDaisyC View Post
    And yet here's a big ole post extrapolating Repeal the 8th (Second Thread) - Page 378 ! Live Births:Abortions =/= percentage.

    Do you actually know what extrapolate means?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gooner View Post
    The no. of Irish women travelling is directly from the British government's own report.

    The no. of Irish women travelling to the Netherlands is from their own Ministry for Health report which you can see here for Ireland (2011-2016 on page 29).

    https://www.igj.nl/binaries/igj/docu...+16-1-2017.pdf

    You're welcome.
    That's not in doubt, the point is that you don't know - because nobody knows - how many more abortions Irish women have had : how many went to a different country for their abortion because they had friends or family there, how many ordered abortion pills, now many indeed may have used some of the older, more traumatic methods.

    Nobody knows. But we know that the number provided by the Uk is not the total number.
    KOBO

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    The funny thing about this is that the pro-abortion posters on here regularly said once upon a time Netherlands kept no records of Irish women travelling until I corrected them on it.

    The cherry picking of data was alive and well then when I was reading this forum long before I joined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gooner View Post
    The funny thing about this is that the pro-abortion posters on here regularly said once about time Netherlands kept no records of Irish women travelling until I corrected them on it.
    Not something I've ever said, so I don't know why you think it's relevant. Although FWIW they didn't provide records for some years, not sure how many, so whoever said that may simply have been a little out of date.

    Quote Originally Posted by gooner View Post
    The cherry picking of data was alive and well then when I was reading this forum long before I joined.
    KOBO

  9. #3819
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    Ireland's official rate was 26 for 2016 IIRC. Do you think that was the actual rate?
    If weíre just going to play silly buggers thereís not much point to continuing this.

    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    It is dishonest to try to directly compare actual statistics to estimated rates as though they were the same thing.
    It is entirely valid to compare different data sets as long as you make reasonable efforts to allow for significant factors that would skew the results. In this case it would be abortions via pills which has been allowed for in the estimates. Unless you have evidence that lots of backstreet abortions are happening as well thereís no reason to believe the figures are significantly off.

    You can choose to dismiss them if you want but to accuse those using generally accepted statistical approaches as being willfully dishonest and lying is frankly ridiculous - no matter how many times you say it.

    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    Sorry you haven't shown what lie was told by prochoicers. If you can point out the specific lie it would be helpful.
    Iím not the one accusing people of lying - it would be helpful if you read the exchange before lobbing in your tuppence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    That's not in doubt, the point is that you don't know - because nobody knows - how many more abortions Irish women have had : how many went to a different country for their abortion because they had friends or family there, how many ordered abortion pills, now many indeed may have used some of the older, more traumatic methods.

    Nobody knows. But we know that the number provided by the Uk is not the total number.
    Sorry now, we have UK, Netherlands, POLDPA and data from two online providers. The estimates are indeed on the latter but they're a fair assessment and backs up what Dr. Aiken said at the Committee.

    France had only 244 abortions from non-citizens in 2017. These are hardly big Irish numbers when there are around 3,000 abortions in the Netherlands for non-citizens in a far smaller country, of which 22 were Irish in 2016. Plus the France figures isn't just mainland, these could be foreign abortions from those that travel to Martinique and Guyana and the other overseas territories.

    Not to mention this from the Johnston Archive site who is a researcher in this area writing about this exact thing:

    Non-resident abortions in Belgium are low, falling to only 109 from elsewhere in Europe in 2011 (Sante Publique, 2012). Spain is cited as a hypothesized location of substantial Irish abortions, but non-resident abortions in Spain have been declining from 3,423 in 2007 to 1,517 in 2014 (Johnston, 2018c), a trend far more consistent with the majority of these being abortions by Portuguese residents. Ireland has indicated that numbers of Irish abortions in Spain or Belgium were less than 10 in 2005-2007 (ECHR, 2010). Some have suggested that Irish women are traveling to more distant European countries for abortions,
    though such reports have been assessed as inconclusive with regard to generalizations (Bloomer and O'Dowd, 2014).
    https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/cacd2...65c77466c2.pdf

    But knock yourself out that there are thousands of Irish abortions unaccounted for outside of Britain, Netherlands, POLDPA, and abortion pill estimates. So forgive me if I don't take you seriously.

    I know what you're up to. If the Irish numbers sky rocket after repeal, play the card we had no idea what the Irish rate was so as to dismiss any criticisms of the numbers increasing.

    Mark my word we'll hear this no matter how high the no. of abortions are in the years ahead.

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