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Thread: The Climate Change Debate Thread (Second Thread)

  1. #1171
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    The difference between Barack Obama’s “war on coal” and Donald Trump’s is that Trump’s war by inaction is three times as destructive.


    The coal industry is dying and Trump lied when he said he would revive it. He lied because he went beyond what even coal barons asked for.

    But he will keep lying, and the deluded miners of West Virginia will probably keep believing.

    Donald Trumps War on Coal
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  2. #1172
    Politics.ie Member mangaire1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clearmurk View Post
    What is this fixation with population?

    I have put forward a fairly simple concept to you, that you are determined to ignore. If you want to fix a problem, you go after the biggest source of that problem first, as that will provide you with the biggest impact.

    I don't know why you won't understand that the emissions produced in Ireland are irrelevant on a global scale.
    "What is this fixation with population?"
    i'm not fixated with population at all, murk.
    I was just responding to your introduction of "population" into the debate, by claiming that those of us inhabiting the region of the planet known as Ireland, were not required to significantly reduce our emissions,
    simply because we represented only about 0.01% of the population of the planet,
    notwithstanding the fact that we're among the higher emitters per capita on the planet.
    I simply asked you, three times I think now, how large a population a region would need to have before it's people were required to contribute to reduced emissions ?
    & still no answer !

    "I have put forward a fairly simple concept to you, …….."
    wrong again, murk.
    what you have put forward to me is that we in Ireland do not need to reduce our emissions.

    "I don't know why you won't understand that the emissions produced in Ireland are irrelevant on a global scale."
    & míheart arís a Mherc.
    I completely understand that.
    I understand that our population is about 0.01% of the global population,
    & that our greenhouse gas emissions exceeds our population % by a factor of perhaps 2 or 3 or even more.

  3. #1173
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post


    The coal industry is dying and Trump lied when he said he would revive it. He lied because he went beyond what even coal barons asked for.

    But he will keep lying, and the deluded miners of West Virginia will probably keep believing.

    Donald Trumps War on Coal
    LOL - more "predictions" from the crowd who have got it wrong every time when it comes to their climate "predictions"

  4. #1174
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Denied: The rise and fall of climate contrarianism: Amazon.co.uk: Richard Black, Richard Benyon MP: 9781912119950: Books

    Free on Kindle.

    Climate change won’t be that serious…’ – ‘the lights will go out if we use renewable energy…’ – ‘climate science is bent…’. For a decade, contrarians controlled large swathes of the UK’s political and media discourse on energy and climate change.
    But their time is coming to an end. As the record for the warmest year gets broken time after time, the cost of clean energy tumbles and public support for tackling climate change stays high, the lights are indeed going out for Britain’s contrarian elite, in both politics and the media.

    In Denied, the first book to take a serious look at the history of the UK’s climate contrarians, former BBC science and environment correspondent Richard Black outlines how they and their canonical arguments came to such prominence – and how they lost.

    "This work is of first-rate importance because it exposes the climate change denial industry in all its moral horror. It should be read attentively – in particular, by climate denying politicians on the political right who have done so much damage." Peter Oborne, Political Columnist, Daily Mail

    "Richard Black brilliantly articulates what a spectacular waste of ink and intellectual energy the UK climate contrarian movement has been. This is the story of how some of the most well-connected, articulate, and arrogant men in Britain lost their long, pointless and ultimately dangerous battle with the evidence of man-made climate change. Beautifully told and thoroughly researched by Richard Black, an experienced journalist, and therefore a natural sceptic, who can spot BS when he sees it." Tom Clarke, Science Editor, ITV News

    "As one of thousands of British scientists working with the reality of climate change day by day, it’s been extraordinary and rather dispiriting to see the power and influence that a tiny number of elite contrarians has wielded in the media for so long – sowing misinformation, undermining what is beyond reasonable doubt, distorting public opinion, appealing to unreason and displaying irrational optimism. However; as Richard Black relates in this compelling account, when prejudice comes face-to-face with overwhelming evidence, there can be only one winner. Thankfully so, because the threat posed by climate change and the challenge of responding to it are far too great to allow serious, evidence-based discourse to be derailed by polemic." Dr Emily Shuckburgh, Head of Data Science and Deputy Head of Polar Oceans, British Antarctic Survey

    "This meticulously-researched demolition of the claims made by climate change contrarians should be the final nail in the coffin of their ill-founded arguments. Richard Black, one of the few people who both understands the detail of climate science and can write about it with crystal clarity, has written a brilliant analysis of how and why too much of the media fell for the contrarians’ claims and how, at last, the sheer strength of the evidence is consigning them to irrelevance." Robin Lustig, journalist, former presenter of The World Tonight, BBC Radio Four

    "With Trump in the White House, Bolsonaro in stewardship of the Amazon, and fossil fuel and car giants being seven out of the 10 wealthiest corporations, the people who stand in the way of solving the Earth’s climate crisis are in control of large parts of the globe. This isn’t just a battle of ideas. But ideas have been critical in shaping humanity’s response to climate change. Richard Black brilliantly exposes how the media has adopted tropes and framing conjured by climate deniers, contrarians and defeatists and used them to shape reporting. ’Denied’ is essential reading for everyone who believes stopping runaway climate change is the challenge of our time - and understands the centrality of the media in shaping public perceptions of the scale and urgency of the crisis and the credibility of solutions." Liz Hutchins, Campaigns Director, Friends of the Earth
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  5. #1175
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    Quote Originally Posted by gandyalf View Post
    This is not difficult, everybody has to reduce their carbon footprin, every company has to reduce their carbon footprint and every country has to reduce their carbon footprint accordind to EU rules and the Paris accord because:

    Worlds Oceans Are Warming Faster, Studies Show, Fueling Storms and Sea Rise | InsideClimate News
    There are lots of articles out there about this new paper, I like this one:

    "Two things strike me about this. First, the increase in the speed of ocean heat content rise is quite large, going from 2.8 ZJ/yr to 9.5 ZJ/yr, three and a half times as fast. Second, it’s probably not a coincidence that the year 1990 is the same at which sea level accelerates. Since thermal expansion is one of the root causes of sea level rise, this is to be expected."
    Tamino.


    Sea Heat | Open Mind

    So, we really need to go cold Turkey on the fossil fuels as quick as possible.

    I know. It's easier said than done, but "every fraction of a degree makes a difference".

  6. #1176

  7. #1177
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post


    The coal industry is dying and Trump lied when he said he would revive it. He lied because he went beyond what even coal barons asked for.

    But he will keep lying, and the deluded miners of West Virginia will probably keep believing.

    Donald Trumps War on Coal
    This may also be of interest:

    Fade to Black: Coal Closures Accelerate | Climate Denial Crock of the Week

    .

  8. #1178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
    LOL - more "predictions" from the crowd who have got it wrong every time when it comes to their climate "predictions"
    Not so. The scientists are getting it right.
    The politicians have done nothing about it.
    Here is a little history:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/29/o...g-history.html


    .

  9. #1179
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    Quote Originally Posted by gandyalf View Post
    Not so. The scientists are getting it right.
    The politicians have done nothing about it.
    Here is a little history:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/29/o...g-history.html


    .
    Here's some more science for ye:

    Weve Underestimated Climate Impacts | Climate Denial Crock of the Week

    .

  10. #1180
    Politics.ie Member RasherHash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gandyalf View Post
    This is not difficult, everybody has to reduce their carbon footprint...



    [url="https://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/solutions/global-warming-...s: Reduce Emissions | Union of Concerned Scientists[/url]

    .
    If everybody has to reduce why are the high priest and priestess of agw, Gore and Robinson making carbon footprints the size of half a rainforest while demanding the small people pay through the nose with massive tax hikes?

    None of these 'leaders'(including golden socks) take agw in any way serious
    ‘Sometimes you need [lie] to get the results for things you think are essential #330 Wiesenthal.

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