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Thread: The invasion that wiped out every man in Spain

  1. #21
    Politics.ie Member The Eagle of the Ninth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    It suffices for convictions, doesn't it?
    Not quite the same thing, and even then, it isn't 100% accurate. There have been numerous cases where DNA evidence was set aside because a number of people could have shared the same markers.

    This is a very complex issue. Because we do not have large databases of human DNA, we are working off very small volunteer samples and extrapolating from them.

    A good example would be the commercial genealogy DNA databases like 23 and Me. As more people provide samples the database is refined, so earlier reports on what your inheritance is likely to be are changed. They are working by comparing one set of samples with another from the same region, and the fewer people who are involved the less accurate their findings are likely to be.

    We are just not at the stage where we can say there was definitely a wholesale massacre of one male population group in a specific area, or they died off, or went extinct for some reason. No scientist would say that. Popular writers might.
    Plotting the witchcraft with my cats.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eagle of the Ninth View Post

    We are just not at the stage where we can say there was definitely a wholesale massacre of one male population group in a specific area, or they died off, or went extinct for some reason. No scientist would say that. Popular writers might.
    Politics, history and genes are difficult to separate.

    Much of the modern population of Brazil is descended from :

    a) white european men (of money, adventure & power) and poor african women slaves.
    or
    b) white european women and poor african men slaves.

    which is more likely, a or b ? Often it takes the scientists long to catch up with the historians.
    How about gender-balance in immigration into ireland ? Is it currently 40 blokes arriving for every 1 woman arriving on these shores ?

  3. #23
    Politics.ie Member parentheses's Avatar
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    The invasion of people from the Eurasian steppes even reached the Island of Rathlin 4,000 years ago. It used to be speculated that the Celts came to Ireland in about 600BC. But now it looks likely their ancestors came much earlier.

    Our finding is that there is some haplotypic [a set of linked DNA variants] continuity between our 4,000 year old genomes and the present Celtic populations, which is not shown strongly by the English,"
    Ancient DNA sheds light on Irish origins - BBC News
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  4. #24
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Of Newgrange View Post
    Politics, history and genes are difficult to separate.

    Much of the modern population of Brazil is descended from :

    a) white european men (of money, adventure & power) and poor african women slaves.
    or
    b) white european women and poor african men slaves.

    which is more likely, a or b ? Often it takes the scientists long to catch up with the historians.
    Fairly obvious answer.

    The environment definitely favoured powerful wealthy guys, who were almost all white, so their descendants are the most likely to come out on top.
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eagle of the Ninth View Post
    We don't know enough about the human genome to say entire populations of males were replaced by others.

    And even if they were, so what?
    If true, it would be a significant historical fact uncovered by DNA research, like our interbreeding not only with Neanderthals but also Denisovans. There have been similar claims of an invader Y haplotype gradient across England. Given what we know of human and chimp behaviour, such mass slaughter is not highly implausible. We’re just at the beginning of extraordinary discoveries about our own deep history.

  6. #26
    Politics.ie Member Degeneration X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    Interesting new research throws light on the invasion of Iberia by the Indo-Europeans(Yamnaya) 4,500 years ago. It is inferred that all existing males in Iberia were wiped out by the invaders. This suggests a stunning level of violence by these Indo-European invaders. And it is known that they spread their language over nearly all of Europe. Yamna culture: The invasion that wiped out every man from Spain 4,500 years ago | In English | EL PAS

    The only puzzle here is that the Basque language is generally reckoned to be pre-Indo-European in origin, and yet it survived. I suppose the only explanation is that the language was handed on by females to their children.
    Is "Yamnaya" the neologism designed to replace the politically contentious "Aryan"?

  7. #27

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    in very monogamous species, like Emperor penguins, the females will fight each other to claim ownership of a desirable male.

    in all other species, the less monogamous the species the more violent the males are towards each other. Consider what it takes to be owning a harem of mates. It is very normal for males to kill each other among camels, bears, many types of bovines, lions, etc etc.

    Chimpanzees are among the worst offenders, nasty, vindictive pre-planning, torturing, teamwork genocide, and territoriality. But they do not hold a candle to the species that has the entire destruction of the planet at its fingertips.
    How about gender-balance in immigration into ireland ? Is it currently 40 blokes arriving for every 1 woman arriving on these shores ?

  8. #28
    Politics.ie Member The Eagle of the Ninth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Of Newgrange View Post
    in very monogamous species, like Emperor penguins, the females will fight each other to claim ownership of a desirable male.

    in all other species, the less monogamous the species the more violent the males are towards each other. Consider what it takes to be owning a harem of mates. It is very normal for males to kill each other among camels, bears, many types of bovines, lions, etc etc.

    Chimpanzees are among the worst offenders, nasty, vindictive pre-planning, torturing, teamwork genocide, and territoriality. But they do not hold a candle to the species that has the entire destruction of the planet at its fingertips.
    What with the women fighting women to claim ownership of the men and the men fighting other men in case the women claimed ownership of them first, it does rather sound like "Love Island..."

    How exhausting.
    Plotting the witchcraft with my cats.

  9. #29
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degeneration X View Post
    Is "Yamnaya" the neologism designed to replace the politically contentious "Aryan"?
    I always understood "Aryan" to include Iranians and the inhabitants of the Indian sub-continent, as well as Europeans, but it got somehow corrupted to mean "White" or even "Germanic".

    It is certainly useless as a scientific name after its abuse by the Nazis.
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Of Newgrange View Post
    in very monogamous species, like Emperor penguins, the females will fight each other to claim ownership of a desirable male.

    in all other species, the less monogamous the species the more violent the males are towards each other. Consider what it takes to be owning a harem of mates. It is very normal for males to kill each other among camels, bears, many types of bovines, lions, etc etc.

    Chimpanzees are among the worst offenders, nasty, vindictive pre-planning, torturing, teamwork genocide, and territoriality. But they do not hold a candle to the species that has the entire destruction of the planet at its fingertips.
    The growing gender disbalance is going to have most probably pretty violent results in Western Europe if things continue on the current trends keep up.

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