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Thread: Hungary: Resistance to the Orban far-right regime emerges into the open ....

  1. #41
    Politics.ie Member tsarbomb's Avatar
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    The protesters were mainly Jobbik supporters.

  2. #42
    Politics.ie Member APettigrew92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    And remember, you are talking about a party that has complete control of the national media. The voters were subject to a vicious propaganda campaign, and had no access to any balancing commentary.

    European leaders congratulated Orban on his "victory", but the truth is plain - Hungary is only a fake democracy.
    This is the same Europe where France has been run by compromise candidates since 2002, Spain is gripped with a secession crisis, Italy has elected a populist Government and where Ireland and Britain have been ruled by an occasional shuffle of the same two parties for the last century.

    What constitues democracy? A crooked system that you just so happen to agree with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    I dont see much difference between the Hungarian electoral system and that of the UK when you consider Blair won nearly two thirds of the seats on just 36% of the vote in 2005.
    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    So, if Hungary was a democracy, Orban should be running a right wing Government with a secure majority, based on his receiving about 50% of the votes.

    Meanwhile, he and his oligarchs can plunder the country. They are safe from Parliamentary oversight, police investigation, media scrutiny or judicial control. Any ordinary Hungarian who stands up to him or his cronies will be broken. Hungarians have no rights, except what Orban chooses to allow them. A tyrant's dream.
    I have Hungarian family. They, being closer to the Hungarian electorate than yourself, have had mixed experiences with democracy.

    The Hungarians rise up and declare a democracy towards the end of WW1. Sinec they're no longer an autocracy, they expect Wilson's points to extend to them. Mistake number 1.

    The Entente divvied up ethnic Hungarian lands and gave them to their neighbours. No plebescites, no votes. Just a blatant landgrab. The Czechs, Slovaks and Romanians then embarked on a cultural cleansing of the sizeable Hungarian minorities. The democratic Government collapses and a Soviet is formed and later a reactionary fascist regime.

    Then the Allies essentially left them to the rule of the Soviets after WW2. Then they revolt looking for democracy and thousands get crushed in the aftermath. Mistake number 2.

    Finally they are the impetus for the fall of the Iron curtain. A huge braindrain grips the country. Hungary loses annually enough people to economic emigration to fill Galway city.

    But apparently Europe should now decide for them their immigration policy. At a time when Hungary is only catching up with the West, she is expected to shoulder a proportional burden to that of Germany.

    It would be the equivalent of asking Ireland in the 1970's to accept migrants.

    Little wonder Hungarians are somewhat wary of the schemings of Western Europeans.
    Avarus animus nullo satiatur lucro - Latin Proverb

  3. #43
    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    At the same time as supporting Orban's immigration policies, I also have some concerns about his media freedom policies. I recall a case involving a media company that was part-German owned, and ended up purging some journalists who were anti Orban. And now he's planning to merge 500 media titles into a vast media conglomerate and make it immune from anti monopoly law. I think that might be a step too far.

    Pro-Orban media giant fuels fears for press freedom in Hungary
    "A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one." - Aristotle

  4. #44
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by APettigrew92 View Post
    This is the same Europe where France has been run by compromise candidates since 2002, Spain is gripped with a secession crisis, Italy has elected a populist Government and where Ireland and Britain have been ruled by an occasional shuffle of the same two parties for the last century.

    What constitues democracy? A crooked system that you just so happen to agree with?





    I have Hungarian family. They, being closer to the Hungarian electorate than yourself, have had mixed experiences with democracy.

    The Hungarians rise up and declare a democracy towards the end of WW1. Sinec they're no longer an autocracy, they expect Wilson's points to extend to them. Mistake number 1.

    The Entente divvied up ethnic Hungarian lands and gave them to their neighbours. No plebescites, no votes. Just a blatant landgrab. The Czechs, Slovaks and Romanians then embarked on a cultural cleansing of the sizeable Hungarian minorities. The democratic Government collapses and a Soviet is formed and later a reactionary fascist regime.

    Then the Allies essentially left them to the rule of the Soviets after WW2. Then they revolt looking for democracy and thousands get crushed in the aftermath. Mistake number 2.

    Finally they are the impetus for the fall of the Iron curtain. A huge braindrain grips the country. Hungary loses annually enough people to economic emigration to fill Galway city.

    But apparently Europe should now decide for them their immigration policy. At a time when Hungary is only catching up with the West, she is expected to shoulder a proportional burden to that of Germany.

    It would be the equivalent of asking Ireland in the 1970's to accept migrants.

    Little wonder Hungarians are somewhat wary of the schemings of Western Europeans.
    Strikes me that Hungarians should be more wary of Eastern Europe and Russia that of Western Europe.

    Immigration has been hardly mentioned. But Hungary is still a tyranny, not a democracy, by any definition. It is a classic fascist one-party state, and will suffer the consequences of all fascist one-party states - chaos.
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  5. #45
    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Strikes me that Hungarians should be more wary of Eastern Europe and Russia that of Western Europe.

    Immigration has been hardly mentioned. But Hungary is still a tyranny, not a democracy, by any definition. It is a classic fascist one-party state, and will suffer the consequences of all fascist one-party states - chaos.
    Nope. Observers had no problems with the fairness of the count process of the elections. Yes they complained of state media bias. But Trump has to put up with a monolithic liberal media bias and the US is still a democracy.
    "A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one." - Aristotle

  6. #46
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Nope. Observers had no problems with the fairness of the count process of the elections. Yes they complained of state media bias. But Trump has to put up with a monolithic liberal media bias and the US is still a democracy.
    Straw man.

    And the usual totallt bullshyte answers we have come to expect.

    If the constituencies are gerrymandered, the "fairness" of the count is not worth spit.

    Boo hoo, liberal media bias, stopping Republicans for generations, except for Faux News and Brainfart News etc. etc, my heart is bleeding, sound of mournful violins in the background, nobody knows the troubles you'be seen with dose libruls ...
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  7. #47
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    Finally they opened their eyes! A bit late, but hey, better late than never. 2 years from now authoritarians like Orban or Kaczynski will be gone and forgotten. Populists movement proved they are unable to deliver on promises and only bring chaos and destruction.

    Good.

  8. #48
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntary View Post
    Finally they opened their eyes! A bit late, but hey, better late than never. 2 years from now authoritarians like Orban or Kaczynski will be gone and forgotten. Populists movement proved they are unable to deliver on promises and only bring chaos and destruction.

    Good.
    Well, I hope Orban and Kaczinski are gone, not so sure about the chaos and destruction.

    (There were rumours during year that Kaczinski was seriously ill. Not sure what has happened since. We await the new "strongman", if any)
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  9. #49
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    A Guardian article (from last month) about resistance to fascism & corruption in Eastern Europe.

    • There are regular public protest meetings in Slovakia and the Czech Republic
    • In Poland, the opposition made big gains in local elections.
    • In Romania, crowds still gather to protest against persistent corruption.
    • There were signs then that all was not well with the Orban regime.


    For all the talk about central Europe having fallen prey to mind-numbing populism in recent years, some nuances and signs of change are worth paying closer attention to. Across the region, civil society activists are pushing back hard against the cynics in power. We should beware of caving in to a simplistic narrative about the east of Europe being a homogeneous hotbed of authoritarianism with little effort put into holding it in check. There is resistance.
    A new wave of dissidents in the east can turn back Europe’s populist tide | Natalie Nougayrède | Opinion | The Guardian
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    It really only started to get reported today, but demonstrations against the Viktor Orban regime have been growing in Budapest over the weekend. Tear gas was fired at demonstrators in the capital.




    Since the Orban regime totally control the news media in Hungary, there was a partial occupation of the State TV station by opposition MPs. They have now been ejected.

    Orban's "soft Fascism" is a new phenomenon, but this is the first time it has been challenged openly. Orban's path to power was based on undemocratic gerrymandering and court-packing for Orban's party, Fidesz.



    However, Hungarians love freedom today just as much as they did in 1956. Orban may win this round, but he will eventually fall, like as Authoritarians.

    How Hungary's Viktor Orban destroyed democracy - Vox
    Left wing nut jobs, Vox, fake news shocker.
    "Never regret anything you have done with sincere affection; nothing is lost that is born of the heart."

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