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Thread: Hungary: Resistance to the Orban far-right regime emerges into the open ....

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    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Default Hungary: Resistance to the Orban far-right regime emerges into the open ....

    It really only started to get reported today, but demonstrations against the Viktor Orban regime have been growing in Budapest over the weekend. Tear gas was fired at demonstrators in the capital.


    The protests began on Wednesday as a reaction to two new laws: one that forces employees to work up to 400 hours of overtime a year, and a second that created a parallel judicial system that will severely undermine judicial independence.

    By Sunday, the demonstrations had become a catchall protest against many aspects of Mr. Orban’s increasingly autocratic governance.
    Since the Orban regime totally control the news media in Hungary, there was a partial occupation of the State TV station by opposition MPs. They have now been ejected.

    Orban's "soft Fascism" is a new phenomenon, but this is the first time it has been challenged openly. Orban's path to power was based on undemocratic gerrymandering and court-packing for Orban's party, Fidesz.

    Fidesz’s [2010 election] victory was widely seen as more a product of general anti-establishment sentiment — the Socialist party had been in power during the 2008 financial crash and was plagued by corruption scandals — than a vote for OrbŠn’s agenda.

    Regardless, the Fidesz constitutional majority swiftly went to work, rewriting parts of the constitution within months of taking power. Parliamentary districts were redrawn and gerrymandered to give Fidesz a leg up. Liberal bastions, principally large cities like Budapest and Szeged in the south, were divided so that large numbers of people were packed into a handful of parliamentary districts, while each district in Hungary’s conservative countryside had fewer people in it.

    The new constitution also expanded the size of the country’s constitutional court, which decides whether laws passed by parliament are constitutional. OrbŠn filled the new seats with Fidesz loyalists. All judges over the age of 62 were also forced to retire, so their seats could be filled with even more Fidesz-friendly jurists.
    However, Hungarians love freedom today just as much as they did in 1956. Orban may win this round, but he will eventually fall, like as Authoritarians.

    How Hungary's Viktor Orban destroyed democracy - Vox
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    The plan for "administrative courts" controlled by the Dept of Justice was maybe a step too far. But Orban has been courageous on immigration and for building the fence.

    He has not destroyed democracy. He has merely created an alternative form of democracy.
    "A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one." - Aristotle

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    Politics.ie Member The OD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    The plan for "administrative courts" controlled by the Dept of Justice was maybe a step too far. But Orban has been courageous on immigration and for building the fence.

    He has not destroyed democracy. He has merely created an alternative form of democracy.
    Is the above a fact or an alternative fact?
    Let's all raise a glass of frog milk to the ancient festival of Fargaltide!

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    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    The plan for "administrative courts" controlled by the Dept of Justice was maybe a step too far. But Orban has been courageous on immigration and for building the fence.

    He has not destroyed democracy. He has merely created an alternative form of democracy.
    "Alternatives to Democracy" are like Trump's "Alternative facts", you need to have that Orwellian capacity for Doublethink like "War is Peace", "Freedom is Slavery" and "Ignorance is Strength", all beloved of you and your creepy God-Emperors.

    Making like even more miserable for people fleeing from an intolerable situation does make a hero out of a mangy tyrant.
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Democracy is not the dictatorship of unelected NGOs. He has trimmed the Soros funded NGOs and the Soros funded Central European University. He has prevented Hungary going the way South Africa almost did under Zuma with oligarchs taking over (which in SA is known as "State Capture").
    "A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one." - Aristotle

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    Forcing workers to work up to 400 hours overtime for free each year doesn't sound like any form of alternative democracy I've ever heard of.

    It definitely sounds like the sort of law oligarchs would like.
    Ecclesia oportet destrui

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    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Democracy is not the dictatorship of unelected NGOs. He has trimmed the Soros funded NGOs and the Soros funded Central European University. He has prevented Hungary going the way South Africa almost did under Zuma with oligarchs taking over (which in SA is known as "State Capture").
    The "Soros funded" shtick is just another piece of alt-right "Jewish Globaliser" conspiracy theory. Soros is a liberal philanthropist, who (incidentally) funded Orban's early career as a then-liberal. But pursuit of personal power made Orban greedy.

    FFS, it is Orban's oligarchs who have taken over. State jobs and enterprises have been handed over to his cronies. Where is the opposition to root them out?

    Orban's family make their fortunes out of EU money.

    Exclusive: Hungary premier's friends and family win more and more public business | Reuters

    How Europe‚€™s taxpayers will bankroll Viktor Orban's friends and family

    Open your eyes - Orban is just another corrupt bargain-basement Mussolini.
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    The "Soros funded" shtick is just another piece of alt-right "Jewish Globaliser" conspiracy theory. Soros is a liberal philanthropist, who (incidentally) funded Orban's early career as a then-liberal. But pursuit of personal power made Orban greedy.

    FFS, it is Orban's oligarchs who have taken over. State jobs and enterprises have been handed over to his cronies. Where is the opposition to root them out?

    Orban's family make their fortunes out of EU money.

    Exclusive: Hungary premier's friends and family win more and more public business | Reuters

    How Europe‚€™s taxpayers will bankroll Viktor Orban's friends and family

    Open your eyes - Orban is just another corrupt bargain-basement Mussolini.
    I was opposed to Soros long before I found out he was Jewish (which I think was in 2016). Im opposed to one individual having an outsized influence on our politics, especially given he isnt even an Irish citizen. I oppose the Soros/OSF agenda on migration, though on a few issues I agree with him e.g. opposition to the Swedish model and support for abortion and LGBT rights. But immigration is more important to me and I am strongly opposed to his open borders agenda.

    I also recall Soros role as "the man who broke the Bank of England" (as UK newspapers call him) in the 1992-3 currency crisis when he sold Sterling, and the BOE was running out of cash to prop it up. This led to job losses in Ireland because we couldnt export as much to the UK as Punt rose to absurd levels like £1.05.

    Soros may claim noble ideals like European integration (noble as he at least would see it). But Soros was happy to sabotage the path to a single currency by crashing the original ERM in this way.
    "A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one." - Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    The plan for "administrative courts" controlled by the Dept of Justice was maybe a step too far. But Orban has been courageous on immigration and for building the fence.

    He has not destroyed democracy. He has merely created an alternative form of democracy.
    Jesus wept, and the scariest part is you are being serious.

    I have frequently said that I believe Trump represented peak far right and they have been leaking slowly since then
    Massively underperforming expectations in Netherlands, France and Sweden, and support in Germany never getting above 15% and now slipping back to about 12.
    In effect, once they got a good look at Trump, educated Europeans recoiled at their own versions, who had been swelling in support

    Harder nut to crack though, the further East you go, where addiction by the rubes is deeper ingrained.
    Therefore courageous of these protesters in Hungary, because unlike Western Europe, as you know, Orban would have little issue with cracking their skulls and calling it law and order.

    Hopefully an end in sight to this dangerous phase of far right flirtation in Europe and Trump thrown out on his fat hole in 2020, maybe sooner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    I was opposed to Soros long before I found out he was Jewish (which I think was in 2016). Im opposed to one individual having an outsized influence on our politics, especially given he isnt even an Irish citizen. I oppose the Soros/OSF agenda on migration, though on a few issues I agree with him e.g. opposition to the Swedish model and support for abortion and LGBT rights. But immigration is more important to me and I am strongly opposed to his open borders agenda.

    I also recall Soros role as "the man who broke the Bank of England" (as UK newspapers call him) in the 1992-3 currency crisis when he sold Sterling, and the BOE was running out of cash to prop it up. This led to job losses in Ireland because we couldnt export as much to the UK as Punt rose to absurd levels like £1.05.

    Soros may claim noble ideals like European integration (noble as he at least would see it). But Soros was happy to sabotage the path to a single currency by crashing the original ERM in this way.
    Soros put his own money up and stood to lose everything if sterling had stayed in the ERM. Sterling crashed out of the ERM and he made billions on it.

    Soros had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with job losses in Ireland. If you want to blame anyone for that blame the UK chancellor of the exchequer.

    Soros did not 'crash' the ERM. Sterling fell out of the basket of currencies that was in the ERM. He made his money off that event- he didn't cause it.
    Ecclesia oportet destrui

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