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Thread: Roll Over Leo bullied into paying back Anglo bondholders

  1. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventualities View Post
    So why have we been in an ongoing, decade-plus economic depression that would far outlast any knock-on effects of the outcome you describe?
    Go back to my analogy earlier in the thread.

    We didn't have a "decade-plus economic depression".

    Paddy got a lot of overtime for a couple of years, then the overtime stopped.

    The Irish Economy got a massive boost whenever the bank lending ponzi scheme was in full flow, then the ponzi scheme stopped.

    Paddy blew his overtime windfall on hookers and blow, a couple of new cars on the never-never, a McMansion, shopping trips to New York, and a holiday pad in Bulgaria.

    The Irish Economy blew the ponzi scheme windfall on a 50% increase in recurring spending, straight into the pockets of the PS, CS and Social Partners (who píssed it away on hookers and blow and all the other vices mentioned above).

    Whenever this here overtime bubble stopped, Paddy decided that he liked the high life, so he went to the Credit Union and borrowed the equivalent of the lost overtime and píssed it away on evern more hookers and blow, etc.

    The Irish Economy went to the Troika and the Draghi Put instead of the Credit Union.



    Your complaint is that you were not a beneficiary of the largesse doled out to the PS/CS & Social Partners from the €120 Billion of excessive spending.

    Most of the rest of us were not beneficiaries either.

    But we don't whinge about it.
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

  2. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Ted Crilly View Post
    Ah yea, FFG's magic money tree......
    Don't forget AmateurFF.

    Howlin was Minister for Public Overexpenditure and No Public Sector Reform whenever most of the damage was done.
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

  3. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventualities View Post
    So why have we been in an ongoing, decade-plus economic depression that would far outlast any knock-on effects of the outcome you describe?
    Because we were running deficiits each and every year. From 25b down to whatever it was last year 1b or so.

    What happened over the last 10 years was income from tax was increased, current expenditure/spemding was also increased, but at a slower rate than tax, and capital expenditure was hammered.


    On another note, the NTMA estimated that if bond holders had been burned if would have saved 9b. If that had happened in 2008/9, and everything else remained the same we would have saved about 400m each year in interest payments. So that would have meant 400m "less" of cuts, or 400m of additional spending, in each budget.

  4. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamsonS View Post
    Because we were running deficiits each and every year. From 25b down to whatever it was last year 1b or so.

    What happened over the last 10 years was income from tax was increased, current expenditure/spemding was also increased, but at a slower rate than tax, and capital expenditure was hammered.
    And people wonder why there is a housing shortage (and shortages of other critical infrastructure).




    On another note, the NTMA estimated that if bond holders had been burned if would have saved 9b. If that had happened in 2008/9, and everything else remained the same we would have saved about 400m each year in interest payments. So that would have meant 400m "less" of cuts, or 400m of additional spending, in each budget.
    Tell us more about this €9 Billion?

    The total amount borrowed from the ECB by the Banks was €150 Billion to €160 Billion.

    The total loaned out under the Guarantee was €1.1 Billion (of which €1 Billion has since been repaid).

    What is this €9 Billion and how does it fit into the equation?
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

  5. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPN View Post
    And people wonder why there is a housing shortage (and shortages of other critical infrastructure).






    Tell us more about this €9 Billion?

    The total amount borrowed from the ECB by the Banks was €150 Billion to €160 Billion.

    The total loaned out under the Guarantee was €1.1 Billion (of which €1 Billion has since been repaid).

    What is this €9 Billion and how does it fit into the equation?
    Burning bondholders ‘could have saved the State €9bn’

    I am assuming the 9b would have come off the Anglo bill, and the 400m is just an estimate of average interest we paid on that 9b over the period.

  6. #1046
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    It all seems a bit hypothetical.

    Is it the usual story of a churnalist going for the headline and not quite understanding the story behind it?



    Let's go back to October 12th 2008.



    The ECB was to provide the liquidity to all EU Banks.

    They provided +/-€150 Billion to the Irish Banks (25% of all liquidity provided to all EU banks)

    This €150 Billion was used to repay maturing bonds and other liquidity that needed to be refinanced.


    The EU member States were to provide any capital their respective banks needed.

    The Irish Banks needed +/-€64 Billion in capital in the short term to bring their ratios back to normal after the original shareholders and other providers of appropriate risk capital had to take the hit for the losses.


    Would this particular €9 Billion be Anglo Bonds, which, if "burden shared" could have reduced the amount of capital that Anglo required to get their ratios straight?




    (Note to self: Read this tomorrow: http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/han...pdf;sequence=1 )
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

  7. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventualities View Post
    Confidence and supply agreements are the "just the tip!" of coalition politics.

    Not that the Civil War hegemony weren't two and a half cheeks of the same rear end.
    What does your boss 'Ted Tynan' think?
    Are you still employed by him?
    Denis O'Brien has stated that he never made payments to ex FG Minister Ml Lowry.

  8. #1048
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    QUOTE=SPN;12561360]"
    Would this particular €9 Billion be Anglo Bonds, which, if "burden shared" could have reduced the amount of capital that Anglo required to get their ratios straight?"

    ...........As it was from NTMA I would give it some credibility.

    If......the FRN's , the 25b of so element of our 206b gross debt, would have been 16b instead of that 25b, if everything else remained the same of course!





    what is this 6 character nonsense?

  9. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamsonS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SPN View Post
    "Would this particular €9 Billion be Anglo Bonds, which, if "burden shared" could have reduced the amount of capital that Anglo required to get their ratios straight?"
    ...........As it was from NTMA I would give it some credibility.

    I'm not questioning the NTMA.

    I'm questioning the accuracy of the report.

    I must have a look at the testimony again over the weekend and see what the context was and if there is any more detail.


    If......the FRN's , the 25b of so element of our 206b gross debt, would have been 16b instead of that 25b, if everything else remained the same of course!
    That's what I'm wondering.

    The EU strategy was to drive on. Everybody else was doing that, with positive results, and they expected us to do it too.

    But we had been playing silly buggers during the bubble and now the chickens were coming home to roost.



    what is this 6 character nonsense?
    Qué?
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

  10. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPN View Post
    Go back to my analogy earlier in the thread.

    We didn't have a "decade-plus economic depression".

    Paddy got a lot of overtime for a couple of years, then the overtime stopped.

    The Irish Economy got a massive boost whenever the bank lending ponzi scheme was in full flow, then the ponzi scheme stopped.

    Paddy blew his overtime windfall on hookers and blow, a couple of new cars on the never-never, a McMansion, shopping trips to New York, and a holiday pad in Bulgaria.

    The Irish Economy blew the ponzi scheme windfall on a 50% increase in recurring spending, straight into the pockets of the PS, CS and Social Partners (who píssed it away on hookers and blow and all the other vices mentioned above).

    Whenever this here overtime bubble stopped, Paddy decided that he liked the high life, so he went to the Credit Union and borrowed the equivalent of the lost overtime and píssed it away on evern more hookers and blow, etc.

    The Irish Economy went to the Troika and the Draghi Put instead of the Credit Union.



    Your complaint is that you were not a beneficiary of the largesse doled out to the PS/CS & Social Partners from the €120 Billion of excessive spending.

    Most of the rest of us were not beneficiaries either.

    But we don't whinge about it.
    By the 3rd left hair on the left side of my moustache, that fairy story almost comes up to the standard of the Brothers Grimm.
    Slán to Care. The Fine Gael way.

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