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Thread: What is the end game of the Israeli State/Zionism?

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    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Default What is the end game of the Israeli State/Zionism?

    The one thing constant in life is change. One of the problems with "Palestinian Solidarity" is that it has not kept up with facts on the grounds. The so called Palestinian Authority which draws so much abuse from Israeli advocates is in fact the battered hooker of the colonial project, but the hooker of it none the less which tortures not just Hamas supporters but others suspected of wanting to meet the colonists with their own language, or even worse just wanting to meet them with non-violent resistance. The so-called Palestinian Authority will collapse because it has destroyed all legitimacy the eyes of the indigenous masses of the West Bank.

    However the so-called Palestinian Authority is demonized by Zionist propagandists here. The two state solution is dead not because indigenous Palestinians are not prepared to live among Jews but because neither Israel of the Settlers would tolerate the Settlers living under solely Palestinian law. Than there is the fact that many of the Settlements are built on privately owned Palestinian land. Than there is the increasing of Settler violence.

    So where do we go from here?

    Ben Gurion believed that if his government treated the "Arab Israeli" brutally enough they would soon leave. That did not work and despite everything they are now over twenty per cent of the population within the Green Line. Imagine a society that totally tries to shut out of it's mind the existence of 20 per cent of the population and you might begin to grasp Zionist pathology.

    So now that the two-state solution is dead what is your end game- the continuation of brutal subjugation of the indigenous population both within and outside even more the Green Line forever or a re-run of the first Nabka? To be a Zionist today means that you have to choose between those two.
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    Politics.ie Member tsarbomb's Avatar
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    From what I understand the goal of Zionism is a secure and prosperous future for a Jewish state where Israel is today. Most Israeli actions seem to stem from that.

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    Politics.ie Member redneck's Avatar
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    I would urge Israelis to look at Lebanon and maybe Cyprus as role model states. They are countries which have large minorities but are able to keep control.
    In Lebanon the President is Christian, but the Prime minister and other government officials are always Sunni or Shia muslims.
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    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsarbomb View Post
    From what I understand the goal of Zionism is a secure and prosperous future for a Jewish state where Israel is today. Most Israeli actions seem to stem from that.
    Yet though Israel is the most prosperous state in the region it is also the most socially unjust, working Jewish families can only dream of two solid meals a days, in recent years even a decent meal a day was without of reach for thirty per cent of Jewish kids in Israel, something you would not outside of very extreme circumstances in the rest of the region.



    It is pretty ironic, bitterly so, that anti-Zionists such as myself send money over to Israel/Palestine to feed Jews while as the likes of Ireland4Israel want to spend their money justifying the oppression of the indigenous population.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

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    Politics.ie Member Niall996's Avatar
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    End game would be safety and prosperity I would assume.
    1080 British Forces killed (& counting) versus only 145 IRA Volunteers. 7.4:1 Ratio. Heaviest ever British defeat in all wars.

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    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    The one thing constant in life is change. One of the problems with "Palestinian Solidarity" is that it has not kept up with facts on the grounds. The so called Palestinian Authority which draws so much abuse from Israeli advocates is in fact the battered hooker of the colonial project, but the hooker of it none the less which tortures not just Hamas supporters but others suspected of wanting to meet the colonists with their own language, or even worse just wanting to meet them with non-violent resistance. The so-called Palestinian Authority will collapse because it has destroyed all legitimacy the eyes of the indigenous masses of the West Bank.

    However the so-called Palestinian Authority is demonized by Zionist propagandists here. The two state solution is dead not because indigenous Palestinians are not prepared to live among Jews but because neither Israel of the Settlers would tolerate the Settlers living under solely Palestinian law. Than there is the fact that many of the Settlements are built on privately owned Palestinian land. Than there is the increasing of Settler violence.

    So where do we go from here?

    Ben Gurion believed that if his government treated the "Arab Israeli" brutally enough they would soon leave. That did not work and despite everything they are now over twenty per cent of the population within the Green Line. Imagine a society that totally tries to shut out of it's mind the existence of 20 per cent of the population and you might begin to grasp Zionist pathology.

    So now that the two-state solution is dead what is your end game- the continuation of brutal subjugation of the indigenous population both within and outside even more the Green Line forever or a re-run of the first Nabka? To be a Zionist today means that you have to choose between those two.

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    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    Yet though Israel is the most prosperous state in the region it is also the most socially unjust, working Jewish families can only dream of two solid meals a days, in recent years even a decent meal a day was without of reach for thirty per cent of Jewish kids in Israel, something you would not outside of very extreme circumstances in the rest of the region.



    It is pretty ironic, bitterly so, that anti-Zionists such as myself send money over to Israel/Palestine to feed Jews while as the likes of Ireland4Israel want to spend their money justifying the oppression of the indigenous population.
    Utter bullsh@t!


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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    I think a two state solution becomes increasingly unsustainable the more the settlements are in amongst Palestinian population centres like Bethlehem, which is practically surrounded by them. A one state solution is more likely but its likely it will be an Apartheid state until Israel grants one man one vote. Its akin to the Old Stormont in NI but much worse. Think Old Stormont but with the Catholics houses being bulldozed. Thats what the Palestinians are experiencing.
    "A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one." - Aristotle

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    The end result will be a 2 state solution with some of the illegal settlements being closed and some of them staying. "Something" will be done with Jerusalem.

    The elements needed to get there include
    • Moderate Israeli govt
    • Stable Palestinian govt
    • Sustained period of peace where Israeli voters feel safe enough to back such a deal
    • Strong US (And Non-ME international) backing to the 2 state solution
    • Stable ME environment that A: Clearly recognises Israel's right to exist, does away with sanctions etc, fully agrees to the borders agreed as being non-negotiable and B: Willing to work financially with Palestine to build it up into a functioning economy.


    We're some distance from a few of those requirements.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    The end result will be a 2 state solution with some of the illegal settlements being closed and some of them staying. "Something" will be done with Jerusalem.

    The elements needed to get there include
    • Moderate Israeli govt
    • Stable Palestinian govt
    • Sustained period of peace where Israeli voters feel safe enough to back such a deal
    • Strong US (And Non-ME international) backing to the 2 state solution
    • Stable ME environment that A: Clearly recognises Israel's right to exist, does away with sanctions etc, fully agrees to the borders agreed as being non-negotiable and B: Willing to work financially with Palestine to build it up into a functioning economy.


    We're some distance from a few of those requirements.
    Not only that. There seems to be a lot of forces who don't want it to work. It would seem that Israel is like "under siege".
    This has got kind of more urgent now with the development of rocket technology.
    So consensus building has a long way to go yet.
    Someone should make a movie about this place.

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