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Thread: What is the end game of the Israeli State/Zionism?

  1. #101
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post

    And of course the reason I bring it up a lot is that so many Jews were massacred by peasants (in the above terms) on the rampage in thrall to stupid hateful peasant beliefs based in Church or other dogmas, and without doubt, this kind of peasant-mindedness is pretty much the same mindset as we find in you and the likes of the posters above, here today.

    Certainly, it is at the root of your problem, and of those like you. We need to rise above it in this country. We need to banish peasant-mindedness.
    Catholicism was mangled and more or less destroyed in this country by bourgeois homosexuals who are as about as far away from peasants as you can get. Yes when the peasantry rose up rebellion against oppression in pre-modern times very often their targets were Jews but this is because Jews were a privileged "middle man minority" (rather being oh so oppressed) who were completely callous because of their Religious beliefs towards the peasantry who they had power over- so Christianity did not come into, class power and oppression did.

    "An American propagandist of rationalism who had come to doubt his position asked advice from Martineau. At Martineau's suggestion he spent six months among the Catholic peasantry of Westphalia, and a further six months among the rationalist medical students of Berlin. He reported from the former ignorance, roughness, superstition, but in the face of the fundamental realities of life "a depth of insight, an assurance of action, an at-homeness of conviction, a magnificent swiftness, purity and massiveness"; from the latter "wide knowledge, polish, suppleness of mind" but in the face of those same realities "the nimble enlightened students were utterly helpless, without insight, action or conviction of any kind"".

    E.I. Watkins.

    Things are not so simple as you make out.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  2. #102
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    I think in reality it does. Particularly I have in mind the other nation we share this land with, our travelling community. However, we don't have every near every peasant-minded idiot in the western and Muslim world seemingly consumed with destroying the Irish state, do we, so there's no real analogy to be made.
    Travellers are not a nation. Yes there is a lot wrong in how Travellers are treated however you will find that it is among the supporters of Zionism in Ireland where the most hatred towards Travellers exists. This makes perfect sense because they wish they could treat Travellers the way that Israel treats the Bedouins.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  3. #103
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    Travellers are not a nation.
    Why are you trying to deny our travelers their national and cultural identity in just the same manner as the very worst type of overzealous pro-Zionist activist tries to deny the Palestinians? A nation is defined as "... a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture. ... It is a cultural-political community that has become conscious of its autonomy, unity, and particular interests..."

  4. #104
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    Catholicism was mangled and more or less destroyed in this country by bourgeois homosexuals...
    Yeah, now blame the gays for the institutional pathologies that there is hardly a sane person denies about the church, most of all, the patriarchal, authoritarian, uncaring, abusive, pre-Vatican II institutions whose legacies came down to our own times, even. (E.g. re conditions for abuse, you were expected to obey your "superior" without resistance, even if that be difficult and repugnant to nature.)

    Listen you idiot "peasant", the gays had nothing to do with your priests having their way with their vulnerable victims. But I think since all was no doubt done with "Latin hymns adorning the tears, prayers and martyric blood", you prefer to turn your pious, sanctimonious, romanticised eye in other directions. Thus you set upon gays and Jews and so on. Well go to hell with you where you belong.

  5. #105
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    Why are you trying to deny our travelers their national and cultural identity in just the same manner as the very worst type of overzealous pro-Zionist activist tries to deny the Palestinians? A nation is defined as "... a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture. ... It is a cultural-political community that has become conscious of its autonomy, unity, and particular interests..."
    LOL you don't give a damn about Travellers no more than you do about any Goyim- you are only bringing them up so that you can claim that Irish people have no right to complain about what they Zionism is doing to the Palestinians. Travelers were the old metal working caste who in a lot of traditional societies are a thing unto themselves, they had a definite place with Irish society but technological progress has robbed them of it, unlike you I see technological progress as something that brings with it as many curses as it does blessings, some have adapted well to this and others have not-I agree though that society does owe them.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  6. #106
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    Yeah, now blame the gays for the institutional pathologies that there is hardly a sane person denies about the church, most of all, the patriarchal, authoritarian, uncaring, abusive, pre-Vatican II institutions whose legacies came down to our own times, even. (E.g. re conditions for abuse, you were expected to obey your "superior" without resistance, even if that be difficult and repugnant to nature.)

    Listen you idiot "peasant", the gays had nothing to do with your priests having their way with their vulnerable victims. But I think since all was no doubt done with "Latin hymns adorning the tears, prayers and martyric blood", you prefer to turn your pious, sanctimonious, romanticised eye in other directions. Thus you set upon gays and Jews and so on. Well go to hell with you where you belong.
    Riddle me this- where does the custom of lighting candles on Shabbat come from?
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  7. #107
    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    They are second-class citizens, though.
    They are not. They have full rights just like other citizens.

  8. #108
    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    Riddle me this- where does the custom of lighting candles on Shabbat come from?

  9. #109
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    How on G-d's green earth do you find that question anti-Semitic?
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  10. #110
    Politics.ie Member RasherHash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    The end result will be a 2 state solution with some of the illegal settlements being closed and some of them staying. "Something" will be done with Jerusalem.

    The elements needed to get there include
    • Moderate Israeli govt
    • Stable Palestinian govt
    • Sustained period of peace where Israeli voters feel safe enough to back such a deal
    • Strong US (And Non-ME international) backing to the 2 state solution
    • Stable ME environment that A: Clearly recognises Israel's right to exist, does away with sanctions etc, fully agrees to the borders agreed as being non-negotiable and B: Willing to work financially with Palestine to build it up into a functioning economy.


    We're some distance from a few of those requirements.
    Any rational person looking at it must come to the conclusion that the 2 state solution is dead.

    The idea that some settlements will go while some remain is the kind of wishy-washy muddled thinking that has us in the current mess.

    It would also make a Palestinian state unviable.

    A single democratic non-apartheid state is the way to go.
    ‘Sometimes you need [lie] to get the results for things you think are essential #330 Wiesenthal.

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