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Thread: What is the end game of the Israeli State/Zionism?

  1. #121
    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james toney View Post
    Seems like none of you hasbara trolls can stop lying for the Apartheid regime.....they have over 50 laws that discriminate against Palestinians.
    The same Equal/Full rights for Palestinians just like israelis? What a laugh.....any proof and links?
    Ratio made the statement let her back it up.

  2. #122
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    Any word on those forty laws? No? Thought not.
    Read the link you silly billy.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  3. #123
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    "... While often repeated, these assertions are based on misconception, error and outright invention. In fact, most of the land in Israel is government-owned, and it is equally available to all Israelis, whether Jewish or Arab..."

    Can Arabs Buy Land in Israel? :: Middle East Quarterly

    Note that out of a total population of 9 million citizens, there are over 1.5 million Arab citizens in Israel (Muslim and Christian), living in their own homes on their own land.
    https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/531
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  4. #124
    Politics.ie Member james toney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    They are not. They have full rights just like other citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    Ratio made the statement let her back it up.
    Read what you said....it's funny that you made such a ludicrous claim.... Any proof that Palestinians have full rights?
    "You think thats bad,theres one lunatic that posts on there 40-50 times a day..He's alone..in bad company!

  5. #125
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Ratio I note you have recently pointed to three historical cases of Zionists criticising their own community's treatment of the Arab community, that were big events in Zionist domestic debate.

    But in the critiques you are identifying, each time, massive improvements were made and specific actions taken on foot of these no doubt harsh criticisms.

    Well I put it to you wouldn't it be great if the Arabs had ever made such criticisms of themselves? Of their own treatment of the Jews? Now no doubt, one or two have tried, but what was their fate? Were their criticisms considered, or were they denounced as "traitors"?

    Yes, examine Arab culture and you find that self-criticism and/or questioning of religious teachings and state leadership and anything else really is forbidden and culturally brings shame, dishonour and violence to those who try.

    Actually it's the same kind of problem we have in this country. We're so great at waving any self-criticisms the Jews have done in their faces and saying, see, you say it yourself, so it must be true, etc! But we rarely dare to self criticise ourselves in any real, meaningful terms. (I've certainly tried it and been denounced as a 'traitor' etc.)

  6. #126
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james toney View Post
    Seems like none of you hasbara trolls can stop lying for the Apartheid regime.....they have over 50 laws that discriminate against Palestinians.
    The same Equal/Full rights for Palestinians just like israelis? What a laugh.....any proof and links?
    The really big question is the "Arab Israelis" at the moment. As Shlomo Sand has pointed out the more they become "Israeli" the more that they hate "Israel". Until 1965 they lived under military rule and any perceived as charismatic in a way that would cause the colonists trouble was killed straight off or put in what were basically death camps. They make up over twenty per cent of the population so if say the Galilee explodes what is going to happen? The Jewish Israelis are well aware of this- which is why a lot on the Right want to further their oppression or bride them to leave (of course if they do not want to take the brides the Right plans to kill them).
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  7. #127
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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  8. #128
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    Ratio I note you have recently pointed to three historical cases of Zionists criticising their own community's treatment of the Arab community, that were big events in Zionist domestic debate.
    Professor Israel Shahak did not come from a Zionist family. After World War II his family ended up in Palestine because they had no where else to go (note I am opposed to the idea of ethnically cleansing the Jews from Palestine though I do think the ruling class will most leave anyway after the end of Zionism and some of the recent Modern Orthodox head the ball immigrants should maybe be deported back to the UK or the USA. He went along with Zionism and considered himself an Israeli patriot until incidents in his life forced him to re-think things so from the mid-1950s onwards forced him to re-think. One of his big criticisms of Jewish culture by the way was it's lack of self-criticism and aversion to seeking objectivity. He was also at times extremely critical of the indigenous Palestinian leadership. He predicted exactly where the Oslo accords would lead and rightly pointed out that Arafat bought into through his vanity.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  9. #129
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    The really big question is the "Arab Israelis" at the moment. As Shlomo Sand has pointed out the more they become "Israeli" the more that they hate "Israel".
    You will just say anything to incite other morons (like Toney).


  10. #130
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    He predicted exactly where the Oslo accords would lead and rightly pointed out that Arafat bought into through his vanity.
    There were a number who pointed out exactly where Oslo would lead. E.g. Arafat's Grand Strategy :: Middle East Quarterly But the world told Israel that they had no need to fear, and the majority of Israelis believed it too, whole-heartedly, and that they must do this for a chance at peace, but they little realised what it would ultimately lead to, and the renewed wars and intifadas against them, built on the concessions they had made, and launched right from their doorstep this time, rather than from a neighboring Arab country.

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