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Thread: What is the end game of the Israeli State/Zionism?

  1. #151
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    No, I know very little about Jewish culture, that's you, apparently. Apart from what I have been exposed to through many Jewish friends. All I know anything about is what Jews and Israelis are actually like, their values, their outlook, their humanity, and that they sure don't deserve all the smears and attacks on their country and values etc. So go head and tell us your version that you obviously can't wait to.
    .


    One thing about early Zionism was that as secular and atheistic as it was it was incredibly into the Bible which is something Jews ignored in the Classical Rabbinic period outside of a certain incredibly interesting Jewish group called the Karaites. You obviously have ignored the Bible as well otherwise you would have at the very least read the Book of Exodus (which is one of it's most exquisite gems) and found there-

    "You shall kindle no fire in any of your habitations on the sabbath day."- Exodus 35:3.

    The Rabbis ordered Jews to light candles in their homes in violation of the Torah so that they could flush out Karaite families and than murder them. The Karaites than outside of where they were too strong or the Goyim protected them started practicing what the Shi'ite Muslims refer to taqiyya (lying or doing things you are against Religiously to save your own skin) and lighting candles at Shabbat however the Rabbis kept the custom in order to enforce the idea that their will was sovereign, even over the clear words of the Torah. This notion that the will of the leaders of the community is sovereign even over the words of Hashem or historical facts or whatever is found increasingly in a secularized (or sometimes at least secularized, increasingly Jews are turning away from secularism) form in Zionism.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  2. #152
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    It's as if jihad, sharia, Hamas, Fatah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, OIC and Arab League law-fare and all the rest are just a figment of their imagination, isn't it. - You moron, would you ever try and grasp the realities that exist outside the odious little propaganda slogans that you gorge yourself on.
    Stupid of them to turn down the offer of empty land in Uganda than, eh what? However before the Zionist project got off the ground it Jews in Europe used to have a very high opinion of Islam and it's cultures, in fact they spear headed Westerners starting to take Islam and it's heritage seriously, now they spear head the demonization of Islam and it's cultures? Wonder why that change would have come about? Maybe stuff they have done themselves against millions of Muslims that has incited the wrath of the Muslim world? So maybe rather than seeking to make wrongs right they choose to demonize "Other"? And the demonization of the "Other" is one of Jewish culture's worst pathologies- this of course escapes one being objective about one's own tribe.

    You should listen to this lecture, it is really fascinating.

    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  3. #153
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golah veNekhar View Post
    "You shall kindle no fire in any of your habitations on the sabbath day."- Exodus 35:3.

    The Rabbis ordered Jews to light candles in their homes in violation of the Torah so that they could flush out Karaite families and than murder them. The Karaites than outside of where they were too strong or the Goyim protected them started practicing what the Shi'ite Muslims refer to taqiyya (lying or doing things you are against Religiously to save your own skin) and lighting candles at Shabbat however the Rabbis kept the custom in order to enforce the idea that their will was sovereign, even over the clear words of the Torah. This notion that the will of the leaders of the community is sovereign even over the words of Hashem or historical facts or whatever is found increasingly in a secularized (or sometimes at least secularized, increasingly Jews are turning away from secularism) form in Zionism.
    What's your source for that little tale, now, eh.

    I can find no other reference. E.g. What are the historical origins of lighting Shabbat Candles? - Quora

  4. #154
    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Be the Wall.

  5. #155
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Why exactly has it "become a giant embarrassment"?

    Why is it "embarrassing" to take a strong stand for example against the following kinds of sentiments publicly expressed by the actual founder of BDS? - Is it not a sound, proper, moral position to hold that these types of statements and sentiments, that obviously are expressed in the aims and methods of BDS, are not conducive to the possibility of peace or a just resolution? And more than that, that they are outright discriminatory and hateful? E.g.


    “(The one state solution means) a unitary state, where, by definition, Jews will be a minority.”​

    “I am completely and categorically against binationalism because it assumes that there are two nations with equal moral claims to the land.”​

    “[Israel] was Palestine, and there is no reason why it should not be renamed Palestine.”​

    “[Palestinians have a right to] resistance by any means, including armed resistance. [Jews] aren’t indigenous just because you say you are….[Jews] are not a people…the UN’s principle of the right to self-determination applies only to colonized people who want to acquire their rights. ”​

    “Going back to the two-state solution, besides having passed its expiry date, it was never a moral solution to start with.We are witnessing the rapid demise of Zionism, and nothing can be done to save it, for Zionism is intent on killing itself. I, for one, support euthanasia.“​

    “Good riddance! The two-state solution for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is finally dead. But someone has to issue an official death certificate before the rotting corpse is given a proper burial and we can all move on and explore the more just, moral and therefore enduring alternative for peaceful coexistence between Jews and Arabs in Mandate Palestine: the one-state solution.”​

    “The ‘two state solution,’…as dictated by Israel, omits basic Palestinian rights…[and] would be yet another act of British complicity in bestowing legitimacy on Israel’s unjust order.”​

    “A Jewish state in Palestine in any shape or form cannot but contravene the basic rights of the indigenous Palestinian population and perpetuate a system of racial discrimination that ought to be opposed categorically….Definitely, most definitely we oppose a Jewish state in any part of Palestine. No Palestinian, rational Palestinian, not a sell-out Palestinian, will ever accept a Jewish state in Palestine.”​

    “You cannot reconcile the right of return for refugees with a two state solution….a return for refugees would end Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. A two-state solution was never moral and it’s no longer working.”​

    “[Jews] did not suffer in Arab countries. There were no pogroms. There was no persecution.”​

    “I clearly do not buy into the two-state solution.”​


    (Barghouti, founder of BDS)

  6. #156
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    What's your source for that little tale, now, eh.

    I can find no other reference. E.g. What are the historical origins of lighting Shabbat Candles? - Quora
    Dealing with Jews- Orthodox Jews will tell you that they cannot be considered "fundamentalists" because they light candles on Shabbat unlike the Karaites who do not. Being raised Reform you have probably never heard of this before and you certainly will know anything about the Karaites. Rabbi Jonathan Sacks comes out with that line in this interview. The Karaites by the way had far better relations with their neighbours in Eastern Europe than the followers of Rabbinic Judaism, particularly after the Hasidic movement took- Hans-Joachim Schoeps, who after Walter Benjamin was the greatest German Jewish mind of the 1970s blamed the Shoah on the Hasidic movement, not the Hasidim themselves mind you, but stamp they had placed on their secularized off spring.

    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  7. #157
    Politics.ie Member Speedfreak's Avatar
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    Go back to your sad little group of racists and ant-semites on politicalirish.com and take your discriminatory bile with you. Sacks btw has you totally nailed, that is why you rail against him so much.

  8. #158
    Politics.ie Member Nesuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    Ah yes, that old familiar self justifying refrain. But the "logic" of your attacks on Israel that comes oozing out of your posts, Mutt and Jeff, belies something other than "historical interest" - of course, obviously, a misinformed, ignorant, distorted, prejudiced "interest" whose sole aim appears to be delegitimising the Jewish homeland and making the moral case for war against her.

    Never mind that if you had the faintest acquaintance with historical facts, you would realise how you seem intent on repeating some of the worst parts of it, and basically regurgitating a propaganda formulated in 1930's Germany. Idiots. You represent such a loathsome, peasant-like, mob-like, aspect of our people. Your contemporary Israel blaming and hating BS demonstrates the quintessence of what is at the root of what ails this country. Idiots.
    Care to define what "Goyim" means for Jews? Or is this age old cultural view of non- Jews acceptable.
    Watashi wa samurai desu.

  9. #159
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    Why exactly has it "become a giant embarrassment"?

    Why is it "embarrassing" to take a strong stand for example against the following kinds of sentiments publicly expressed by the actual founder of BDS? - Is it not a sound, proper, moral position to hold that these types of statements and sentiments, that obviously are expressed in the aims and methods of BDS, are not conducive to the possibility of peace or a just resolution? And more than that, that they are outright discriminatory and hateful? E.g.
    So it is discriminatory for Jews to live in Palestine if they do not have Jewish supremacy? The two state solution is dead- killed by Zionism. The discussion is what type of unitary state we will have. You support one type of state- which is clearly discriminatory- not just against indigenous Palestinians but also against Levantine Jewry, Ethiopian Jewry, the elderly, the disabled, "Jewish" people who happen to be Christian (like a lot of Russian immigrants), Jewish converts to Christianity and so on and so on. I support an Israel/Palestine for all it's citizens. And it is foolish to think you can get rid of all this discrimination by Jews against other Jews without getting rid of Zionism first, the reason the Socialist ideals of Israel at the start ended up in the disaster we have now there in terms of Social Justice is because inherent within Zionism at least from the refusal of the Uganda offer has been a total disregard for other people which could never by the nature of things remain as just a total disregard for non-Jews.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

  10. #160
    Politics.ie Member Golah veNekhar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesuno View Post
    Care to define what "Goyim" means for Jews? Or is this age old cultural view of non- Jews acceptable.
    It means nation. Goy Kadosh- a Priestly Nation. It does not mean cattle.
    In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
    And carried the soul in my palm, For an Arab Palestine.

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