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17th May 1974, Two Irish Towns - Major Slaughter, Minor Investigation


onlyasking

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Dec 19, 2008
Messages
5,735
17th May 1974. Ireland.

The Fine Gael/Labour government of the day was characterised by an uncompromising stance against ‘the men of violence’. Leading Fine Gael figures like Paddy Donegan and Paddy Cooney were seen to have been pro-active types, with Cooney ordering that the grave of IRA hunger striker Frank Stagg be cemented over. Their coalition colleague Conor Cruise O'Brien later recounted a conversation he had with a detective at the time in which the detective gave an account of a republican prisoner having "the sh1t beaten out of him". Cruise O'Brien recalled keeping the information away from Garrett Fitzgerald and Justin Keating "because I thought it would worry them. It didn’t worry me".

Then, when Donegan went so far as to denigrate the President, Cearbhaill O’Dalaigh, his colleagues circled the wagons around him, leading to the President’s resignation. Clearly, this was a government with close contacts with the forces of law and order, and a government led by men who didn't stand idly by.

However, when several bombs exploded without warning in the evening rush hour on that Friday thirty nine years ago, killing dozens of children, women and men in Dublin and Monaghan, the forces of law and order of the state began an investigation which was terminated after a few weeks. No substantial steps were taken to bring to the killers to justice, while several steps were taken which effectively ensured their escape from justice.

Not only were the bereaved and the injured insulted in this way, but most of the evidence was removed from the ‘safekeeping’ of the state at later dates and, presumably, destroyed.

Clearly, there were other atrocities throughout the conflict in which many innocent people died. However, in the cases of deaths resulting from republican actions it is impossible to conceive that any were subject to remotely as weak an investigation as were the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings.

Some questions arise:

1. Why would our forces of law and order abandon after a few weeks one of the worst crimes in the history of the state.

2. Is there any similar case in modern European history, in which an investigation into a mass-murder is so rapidly abandoned by forces of law and order.

3. Why would employees of the state remove and destroy most of the evidence in this case while it was being held by that state in otherwise secure locations.

4. Is it plausible that the government of the day would have had no role or capacity to encourage the forces of law and order to continue the investigation beyond a few weeks.
 

CarnivalOfAction

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Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
16,545
17th May 1974. Ireland.

The Fine Gael/Labour government of the day was characterised by an uncompromising stance against ‘the men of violence’. Leading Fine Gael figures like Paddy Donegan and Paddy Cooney were seen to have been pro-active types, with Cooney ordering that the grave of IRA hunger striker Frank Stagg be cemented over. Their coalition colleague Conor Cruise O'Brien later recounted a conversation he had with a detective at the time in which the detective gave an account of a republican prisoner having "the sh1t beaten out of him". Cruise O'Brien recalled keeping the information away from Garrett Fitzgerald and Justin Keating "because I thought it would worry them. It didn’t worry me".

Then, when Donegan went so far as to denigrate the President, Cearbhaill O’Dalaigh, his colleagues circled the wagons around him, leading to the President’s resignation. Clearly, this was a government with close contacts with the forces of law and order, and a government led by men who didn't stand idly by.

However, when several bombs exploded without warning in the evening rush hour on that Friday thirty nine years ago, killing dozens of children, women and men in Dublin and Monaghan, the forces of law and order of the state began an investigation which was terminated after a few weeks. No substantial steps were taken to bring to the killers to justice, while several steps were taken which effectively ensured their escape from justice.

Not only were the bereaved and the injured insulted in this way, but most of the evidence was removed from the ‘safekeeping’ of the state at later dates and, presumably, destroyed.

Clearly, there were other atrocities throughout the conflict in which many innocent people died. However, in the cases of deaths resulting from republican actions it is impossible to conceive that any were subject to remotely as weak an investigation as were the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings.

Some questions arise:

1. Why would our forces of law and order abandon after a few weeks one of the worst crimes in the history of the state.

2. Is there any similar case in modern European history, in which an investigation into a mass-murder is so rapidly abandoned by forces of law and order.

3. Why would employees of the state remove and destroy most of the evidence in this case while it was being held by that state in otherwise secure locations.

4. Is it plausible that the government of the day would have had no role or capacity to encourage the forces of law and order to continue the investigation beyond a few weeks.
Not one reply to a post on the anniversary of the worst mass murder of the Troubles. Says it all really: no investigation, no-one questioned, no arrests, no charges, no sentences, no diciplinary action; no state commemorations; no day of mourning; no rallies by "peace" activists. No wonder the bereaved families call it the Forgotten Massacre.



When will there be Justice For The Forgotten?

Patrick Askin (44) Co. Monaghan
Josie Bradley (21) Co. Offaly
Marie Butler (21) Co. Waterford
Anne Byrne (35) Dublin
Thomas Campbell (52) Co. Monaghan
Simone Chetrit (30) France
Thomas Croarkin (36) Co. Monaghan
John Dargle (80) Dublin
Concepta Dempsey (65) Co. Louth
Colette Doherty (20) Dublin
Baby Doherty (full term unborn) Dublin*
Patrick Fay (47), Dublin & Co. Louth
Elizabeth Fitzgerald (59) Dublin
Breda Bernadette Grace (34) Dublin and Co. Kerry
Archie Harper (73) Co. Monaghan
Antonio Magliocco, (37) Dublin & Italy
May McKenna (55) Co. Tyrone
Anne Marren (20) Co. Sligo
Anna Massey (21) Dublin
Dorothy Morris (57) Dublin
John (24), Anna (22), Jacqueline (17 months) & Anne-Marie (5 months) O'Brien, Dublin
Christina O'Loughlin (51), Dublin
Edward John O'Neill (39), Dublin
Marie Phelan (20), Co. Waterford
Siobhán Roice (19), Wexford Town
Maureen Shields (46), Dublin
Jack Travers (28), Monaghan Town
Breda Turner (21), Co. Tipperary
John Walsh (27), Dublin
Peggy White (44), Monaghan Town
George Williamson (72), Co. Monaghan
*Baby Doherty was recognised as the 34th victim of the Bombings by the Coroner for the City of Dublin during the course of the Inquests held in April and May 2004
 

SideysGhost

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Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
Not a peep from the usual snivelling shoneens.

And then they get all pompous and offended when Northerners view the gombeen statelet with contempt. Horrible little cesspit of a pretend country full of horrible reactionary nasty little crawlers, servile wannabe jackbooted gimps only too happy to see their own supposed countrymen dead or suffering while they fawn over the killers and oppressors.

"Against violence", "law-abiding", "democratic"? Me feckin hole they are. Outrageous and blatant lying hypocrites the lot of 'em.
 

Prof Honeydew

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Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
5,222
17th May 1974. Ireland.

Some questions arise:

1. Why would our forces of law and order abandon after a few weeks one of the worst crimes in the history of the state.

2. Is there any similar case in modern European history, in which an investigation into a mass-murder is so rapidly abandoned by forces of law and order.

3. Why would employees of the state remove and destroy most of the evidence in this case while it was being held by that state in otherwise secure locations.

4. Is it plausible that the government of the day would have had no role or capacity to encourage the forces of law and order to continue the investigation beyond a few weeks.
Another question that has never been explained:

- How was a supposed UVF group able to mount a bombing operation to a level of sophistication never shown before or after by any Loyalist outfit during the entire history of the Troubles?
 

Truth.ie

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Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
28,077
Per Capita, Loyalists have killed more citizens in the 26 counties than the IRA have killed in their 40 year England Campaign.
However, unlike the IRA's long list of prisoners in English jails, not a SINGLE case of Loyalist terror and bombings was resolved by the Gardai.
This is not negligence, but rather a political decision.
Even when the RUC arrested a Loyalist with the guns that killed Eddie Fullerton, they didn't make even an attempt to have him extradited. Not even for a cup of tea and a few questions.
Zero interest in having cases solved that involved Loyalists.
 
Last edited:

Eire1976

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Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,190
17th May 1974. Ireland.

The Fine Gael/Labour government of the day was characterised by an uncompromising stance against ‘the men of violence’. Leading Fine Gael figures like Paddy Donegan and Paddy Cooney were seen to have been pro-active types, with Cooney ordering that the grave of IRA hunger striker Frank Stagg be cemented over. Their coalition colleague Conor Cruise O'Brien later recounted a conversation he had with a detective at the time in which the detective gave an account of a republican prisoner having "the sh1t beaten out of him". Cruise O'Brien recalled keeping the information away from Garrett Fitzgerald and Justin Keating "because I thought it would worry them. It didn’t worry me".

Then, when Donegan went so far as to denigrate the President, Cearbhaill O’Dalaigh, his colleagues circled the wagons around him, leading to the President’s resignation. Clearly, this was a government with close contacts with the forces of law and order, and a government led by men who didn't stand idly by.

However, when several bombs exploded without warning in the evening rush hour on that Friday thirty nine years ago, killing dozens of children, women and men in Dublin and Monaghan, the forces of law and order of the state began an investigation which was terminated after a few weeks. No substantial steps were taken to bring to the killers to justice, while several steps were taken which effectively ensured their escape from justice.

Not only were the bereaved and the injured insulted in this way, but most of the evidence was removed from the ‘safekeeping’ of the state at later dates and, presumably, destroyed.

Clearly, there were other atrocities throughout the conflict in which many innocent people died. However, in the cases of deaths resulting from republican actions it is impossible to conceive that any were subject to remotely as weak an investigation as were the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings.

Some questions arise:

1. Why would our forces of law and order abandon after a few weeks one of the worst crimes in the history of the state.

2. Is there any similar case in modern European history, in which an investigation into a mass-murder is so rapidly abandoned by forces of law and order.

3. Why would employees of the state remove and destroy most of the evidence in this case while it was being held by that state in otherwise secure locations.

4. Is it plausible that the government of the day would have had no role or capacity to encourage the forces of law and order to continue the investigation beyond a few weeks.
The reason it was abandoned is because it led back to British intelligence and to report that would have meant War.

FG/Lab are also full of British agents.
 

freewillie

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Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,491
Per Capita, Loyalists have killed more citizens in the 26 counties than the IRA have killed in their 40 year England Campaign.
However, unlike the IRA's long list of prisoners in English jails, not a SINGLE case of Loyalist terror and bombings was resolved by the Gardai.
This is not negligence, but rather a political decision.
Even when the RUC arrested a Loyalist with the guns that killed Eddie Fullerton, they didn't make even an attempt to have him extradited. Not even for a cup of tea and a few questions.
Zero interest in having cases solved that involved Loyalists.
I understand that a Loyalist possibly named Wilkinson was caught in Dublin when an incendiary device went off in his pocket. He was convicted but for some unknown reason was transferred back to the North to finish his sentence. Mysterious behaviour
 

Truth.ie

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Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
28,077
The Irish State doesn't tackle loyalists full stop.

We allow them to run our media, fill our Dail benches, why would we lock them up?
And used taxpayers money to pay for expert media trainers for UDA leaders.
 

dresden8

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Feb 5, 2009
Messages
14,937
It is difficult to be outraged by events of forty years ago.
That's brilliant. Absolutely fncking brilliant.

Army deserters? Ring a bell? It's quite prominent on this forum at the moment. And that was 70 years ago.

And okay, I'll be the first to say it, Jean McConville.
 

captainwillard

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That's brilliant. Absolutely fncking brilliant.

Army deserters? Ring a bell? It's quite prominent on this forum at the moment. And that was 70 years ago.

And okay, I'll be the first to say it, Jean McConville.

You must be a very angry man. How on earth do you sustain all these grievances?
 

onlyasking

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Dec 19, 2008
Messages
5,735
It is difficult to be outraged by events of forty years ago.
How about 'the airbrushing out of history' of Irishmen who fought for Britain in the Great War.

How about those historical cases (of republican violence) from the War of Independence which are periodically highlighted in writing by historians and assorted cranks, and on the airwaves by RTE and TV3 - Coolacrease, Cork etc.

How about the "outrage" over "the treatment" of those who deserted our army during WWll (we've seen a fair bit of that in recent days).

Bloody Friday, the Disappeared, La Mon, Enniskillen etc.

I think what you may have meant was:

"I find it difficult to be outraged by mass-murder forty years ago when the slaughter can't be laid at the door of Irish republicans".
 

captainwillard

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Messages
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How about 'the airbrushing out of history' of Irishmen who fought for Britain in the Great War.

How about those historical cases (of republican violence) from the War of Independence which are periodically highlighted in writing by historians and assorted cranks, and on the airwaves by RTE and TV3 - Coolacrease, Cork etc.

How about the "outrage" over "the treatment" of those who deserted our army during WWll (we've seen a fair bit of that in recent days).

Bloody Friday, the Disappeared, La Mon, Enniskillen etc.

I think what you may have meant was:

"I find it difficult to be outraged by mass-murder forty years ago when the slaughter can't be laid at the door of Irish republicans".
That is not what meant. I can't see why you are in a tizzy about events of forty years ago.
 

onlyasking

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Dec 19, 2008
Messages
5,735
All those grievances?
Well, 33 "grievances" today.

We need to remember Robert McCartney, killed during a pub brawl, not these 33 children, women and men whose deaths were subject to minimal investigative effort and maximum intervention to protect the killers.
 

onlyasking

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Dec 19, 2008
Messages
5,735
That is not what meant. I can't see why you are in a tizzy about events of forty years ago.
Do you agree that it's time for people to stop bringing up republican violence when the likes of Martin McGuinness put themselves forward for elected office in this state?

Is it time for the Indo/Sindo to quit the obsession?

I don't think we'll get much effort from Jim Cusack to bang the drum over Dublin/Monaghan.
 

cathalbrugha

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Jun 29, 2011
Messages
9,215
Per Capita, Loyalists have killed more citizens in the 26 counties than the IRA have killed in their 40 year England Campaign.
However, unlike the IRA's long list of prisoners in English jails, not a SINGLE case of Loyalist terror and bombings was resolved by the Gardai.
This is not negligence, but rather a political decision.
Even when the RUC arrested a Loyalist with the guns that killed Eddie Fullerton, they didn't make even an attempt to have him extradited. Not even for a cup of tea and a few questions.
Zero interest in having cases solved that involved Loyalists.
That's an absolutely shocking statistic that not one prosecution was ever brought against any of them. Not one. It's definitely a wink-wink nudge-nudge agreement. Nobody rock the boat accept the HET. Where I wonder are the HET inquiries into what the Loyalists done in the south? MI5 are hardly going to investigate themselves..
 

derryman

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10,843
That is not what meant. I can't see why you are in a tizzy about events of forty years ago.
Who is in a tizzy? Is highlighting non republican atrocities more likely to cause a tizzy than the republican ones, or is it you who is actually in a tizzy. Do you think the children and relatives of these victims are less likely to be outraged than other victims. Certainly seems to me that you think they don't have a right to be outraged because they were not the victims of a republican attack.
 

onlyasking

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5,735
Who is in a tizzy? Is highlighting non republican atrocities more likely to cause a tizzy than the republican ones, or is it you who is actually in a tizzy. Do you think the children and relatives of these victims are less likely to be outraged than other victims. Certainly seems to me that you think they don't have a right to be outraged because they were not the victims of a republican attack.
To be fair to Captainwillard, at least he's had the honesty to come here and express an opinion.

Unlike Johnny365, Ramps and the rest of those who'll be found in a frenzy over republican violence from 40 years ago.
 
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