• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

1922 military census goes online today in searchable form


statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230

Seanie Lemass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
20,159
Another useful resource for those of us with an interest in such matters.

Searchable form of 1922 military census goes online today



It will be available from around 10:00 here:

www.census.militaryarchives.ie

Fair play Statsman. The historians friend :)

Granny's brother and brother-in-law were on the 'wrong' side so will be checking their records. Will also give an interesting sociological breakdown of the FS army in terms of geography, age, class perhaps. Obviously vast majority had not been in IRA. My relations were in Dublin ASU so were taken in as officers - one was Captain and rose to some higher rank. Other was Captain in Intelligence but was thrown out in 1924 when he was part of the Mutiny.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Fair play Statsman. The historians friend :)

Granny's brother and brother-in-law were on the 'wrong' side so will be checking their records. Will also give an interesting sociological breakdown of the FS army in terms of geography, age, class perhaps. Obviously vast majority had not been in IRA. My relations were in Dublin ASU so were taken in as officers - one was Captain and rose to some higher rank. Other was Captain in Intelligence but was thrown out in 1924 when he was part of the Mutiny.
I had two great-uncles on the 'wrong' side, too.
 

MacO'velli

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
5,042
I had a great uncle on one side and a grandfather on the other, Family of splitters us......
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
I had a great uncle on one side and a grandfather on the other, Family of splitters us......
My mother's family had Collins on the wall, my father's had Dev. I rejected both sides.
 

MacO'velli

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
5,042
My mother's family had Collins on the wall, my father's had Dev. I rejected both sides.
Its the way it was, My Grandmother was a rabid FF'er and her husband, My Grandfather, was narrowly edged out of a nomination for Clann na Talmhan by Michael Donnellan who subsequently joined FG as would my Grandfather, rabid Blue that he was. My parents split in similar ways, My dad FG and Mother FF.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
Fair play Statsman. The historians friend :)

Granny's brother and brother-in-law were on the 'wrong' side so will be checking their records. Will also give an interesting sociological breakdown of the FS army in terms of geography, age, class perhaps. Obviously vast majority had not been in IRA. My relations were in Dublin ASU so were taken in as officers - one was Captain and rose to some higher rank. Other was Captain in Intelligence but was thrown out in 1924 when he was part of the Mutiny.
The census only lists the men who were in the ranks of the Pro-Treaty when the National Army was established.

Thousands more men were recruited either formally or informally before the end of the war months later and other men deserted to the IRA or members of the IRA switched sides and joined the Free State side. Some men may have participated but were never properly recorded because for much of the conflict lines of communication were not always maintained, units were formed ad hoc in some cases, fighting the war took priority over paperwork and of course there was scope for opportunists and malingerers who were happy to receive army pay but never actually did any real military service at all.
There isn't an exact number on how many Free State soldiers were actually killed.
Officially it is about 800 overall but there were probably others who were killed of whom no record exists.
In a fluid confused situation higher up officers would have only a rough idea of how many men are actually available.
Over the course of the conflict other men who started out as privates in IRA with some combat experience during the War of Independence were promoted to officers in order command an influx of men.
The census is therefore just a snapshot at a moment in time.
Most of the Free State Army were recruited after the major battle of the war were already over after June, July and August 1922.
After that time the war involved the round up of republicans - in a few cases villages and towns were retaken by the Ant-Treaty IRA and pitched battles continued to be fought - but in most cases organised resistance was dwindling and by the conclusion of the fighting individual IRA men or small handfuls of isolated men living rough was all the Anti-Treaty forces now amounted to after their divisions, battalions and companies disintegrated as men simply gave up and went home or were arrested in sweeps.
The Free State army that existed at the end of the conflict was much more efficient and organised that months earlier but much of its lower ranks were still an undisciplined rag tag mob. It's best units had the first choice of vehicles, weapons, uniforms and these were the core that remained after the mutiny. The mutiny had more to do with the realization that normal civilian life would resume and that many of the soon to be demobbed Free State men had no employment waiting for them.
 
Last edited:

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Its the way it was, My Grandmother was a rabid FF'er and her husband, My Grandfather, was narrowly edged out of a nomination for Clann na Talmhan by Michael Donnellan who subsequently joined FG as would my Grandfather, rabid Blue that he was. My parents split in similar ways, My dad FG and Mother FF.
Will nobody think of the children? ;)
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
The census only lists the men who were in the ranks of the Pro-Treaty when the National Army was established.

Thousands more men were recruited either formally or informally before the end of the war months later and other men deserted to the IRA or members of the IRA switched sides. Some men may have participated but were never properly recorded because for much of the conflict lines of communication were not always maintained, units were formed ad hoc in some cases, fighting the war took priority over paperwork and of course there was scope for opportunists and malingerers who were happy to receive army pay but never actually did any real military service at all. Over the course of the conflict other men who started out as privates in IRA with some combat experience during the War of Independence were promoted to officers in order command an influx of men.
The census is therefore just a snapshot at a moment in time.
Most of the Free State Army were recruited after the major battle of the war were already over after June, July and August 1923.
After that time the war involved the round up of republicans - in a few cases villages and towns were retaken by the Ant-Treaty IRA and pitched battles continued to be fought - but in most cases organised resistance was dwindling and by the conclusion of the fighting individual IRA men or small handfuls of isolated men living rough was all the Anti-Treaty forces now amounted to after their divisions, battalions and companies disintegrated.
The Free State army that existed at the end of the conflict was much more efficient and organised that months earlier but much of its lower ranks were an undisciplined rag tag mob. It's best units had the first choice of vehicles, weapons, uniforms and these were the core that remained after the mutiny. The mutiny had more to do with the realization that normal civilian life would resume and there many of the demobbed Free State men had no employment waiting for them.
It records everyone who was in the service on the night of 12th-13th November, 1922.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
It records everyone who was in the service on the night of 12th-13th November, 1922.
The census is not entirely trustworthy though considering the chaotic situation in many parts of the country at the time.
Also the army would not reach its peak strength until much later.
 

Seanie Lemass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
20,159
Its the way it was, My Grandmother was a rabid FF'er and her husband, My Grandfather, was narrowly edged out of a nomination for Clann na Talmhan by Michael Donnellan who subsequently joined FG as would my Grandfather, rabid Blue that he was. My parents split in similar ways, My dad FG and Mother FF.


Clann na Talmhan were not universally FG inclined. They lost significantly to Clann na Poblachta in 1948 which would suggest that much of their 1943 vote was disaffected republicans.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
The census is not entirely trustworthy though considering the chaotic situation in many parts of the country at the time.
Also the army would not reach its peak strength until much later.
No census is entirely trustworthy. In my own case, the ages of some relatives in the 1901 and 1911 censuses do not tally. Nevertheless, any reasonably well-organised census is better than nothing.
 

Seanie Lemass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
20,159
Hitch, as Statsman points out the census was taken when the FS Army had over 30,000 men. There were nowhere near that number who were pro-Treaty IRA prior to the split.

As for the Mutiny, it almost exclusively involved officers who resented there being pushed aside by former British Army and other new comers. They had little or no support among the newere recruits and were easily dealt with.
 
Top