1986 State Papers Released

General Urko

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From the glimpse I have seen as reported on various sites, I'm not really surprised that nobody else has posted a thread on them! There's feck all to see of huge interest, well The Provos apparently were thought of as assuming the Anglo Irish Agreement would fall apart, The Government were pushing for Bob The Gob to get The Nobel Peace Prize and it seems Peedur Robinson and his ilk were considering the eventual possibility of UDI (oh why oh why did this not happen!) if The Britz finally saw sense and abandoned them!

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2016/1230/841686-state-papers-1986/

1986 State papers: Thatcher said UK got North Border 'wrong' in 1921 - Independent.ie

State papers 1986: School attempted to segregate Travellers

State papers 1986: Peter Robinson plotted an independent state

1986 State Papers · TheJournal.ie
 


livingstone

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The divergence between UK and Irish State paper release schedules is really starting to become evident now. Because the UK is moving to a twenty year rule, and has been for a couple of years, their State papers being released now are from 1989 and 1990.

Given the extent to which UK and Irish history overlap in that period it's quite odd seeing the Irish papers for 1986 now when we saw the UK papers for the same year two years ago.
 

Congalltee

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Garrett got his pats on the back from Maggie. Well earned.
The exchange on Sellafield is illuminating. "Don't explode. We have an understanding we don't divulge these conversations but have to say I raised Sellafield with you". "Noted" was the response.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Garrett got his pats on the back from Maggie. Well earned.
The exchange on Sellafield is illuminating. "Don't explode. We have an understanding we don't divulge these conversations but have to say I raised Sellafield with you". "Noted" was the response.
Quite illuminating but hardly surprising as Irish political representatives are well known for their reluctance to engage in negotiation when off the island. Their main aim is to obtain a crumb in order to pretend through the Irish media that they have done so.

In fact the only time I've heard of Irish politicians getting humpy at all on the international stage was when the Troika started demanding that the Irish government start dismantling some noticeable restricted practices around the professions and closely tied to the patronage system.
 

cricket

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Takes a few days for these to sink in and to be seen in context. From what I've seen today, Garrett again put country first, unlike Haughey.
 

Just Jack

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BritGerald was a lapdog for Thatcher, that we already knew.

What we didn't know what that Sir John of Bruton was horrified that a statue of our once noble Queen Victoria was being shipped to Australia.

John Bruton objected to sending Queen Victoria statue to Sydney

Former taoiseach John Bruton burst into tears when he found out a statue of Queen Victoria was being sent to Sydney it has been revealed
 

Malcolm Redfellow

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From the glimpse I have seen as reported on various sites, I'm not really surprised that nobody else has posted a thread on them!
Early days, General Urko. What we have so far is the first rustle of leaks via the privileged few who are allowed prior access. Come the New Year (which will be a second late), there'll be a massed incursion of PhD students into the National Archives, all in search of a thesis-making find.

However, you've spotted a juicy bone to chew on:
State papers 1986: Peter Robinson plotted an independent state

I hate to say it, but we were close to knowing that already.

The Thatcher-Fitzgerald accord was the moment for lighting the True Blue touch paper and retreating. The Loyalists quickly buried hatchets (not, for once, in each other) and set about raising funds to buy arms. There was the July 1987 raid by Ulster Resistance, the UDA and the UVF on the Northern Bank in Portadown: £325,000 raised. Brian Nelson, who may or (less likely) may not have been also in the paid employ of the Force Research Unit, was despatched to South Africa to blow the kitty. This brought 200 assault rifles, 90 Browning pistols, 500 grenades, 212 RPG7 rocket launchers and 30,000 rounds of ammunition ashore in County Down. Similar buying trips went to Israel and across the European continent.

On 3rd August 1987, the Sunday News had an interview between John Coulter and an unnamed "independence strategist", which outlined the intents of a group calling itself "the Ulster Movement for Self-Determination" (MSD). The programme would be excluding Dublin and all its works from Northern Ireland, no place for anyone even suspected of republican or nationalist tendencies, security controlled by loyalists, who would also be sealing the Border. Bottom line:
Our goal must be to bring about a completely new situation in this country.

To create a free Ulster for a free people, no longer at the mercy of either Republican terror gangs or appeasing and treacherous English politicians who do not understand us and do not wish to do so.
This same "independence strategist":
warned that the time was fast approaching in the Loyalist community when Unionists would hire paid-for contract killers to assassinate known Republican "trigger men".

... Loyalists would have a "slush fund" to pay such hit men in much the same way as gangland bases or Mafia chiefs operated.

More likely the hired assassins would be former SAS personnel who had served in Ulster. The Loyalists themselves would compile a dossier on the intended IRA victim and hand it, along with the cash, to the would-be assassin.
Tellingly, the accompanying graphic was a map of the nine counties of Ulster:
While the MSD spokesman outlined that the initial solution to the present Troubles would be found within a Northern Ireland context, he did make a sinister remark about possible encroachments into Éire.

"We want to undo the injustices which were done to our Protestant forefathers when Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan were excluded from the original Northern Ireland settlement. We were robbed of our rightful heritage in the 1920s."
A further moment of interest: a month later John Coulter had the chair of the Ulster Clubs, Alan Wright, named and on the record. Wright stated that Ian Paisley and Jim Molyneaux were no longer in favour: in stead he expressed a preference for Peter Robinson (a founder of Ulster Resistance in 1986, and infamously the Peter Punt of Clontibert in August 1986) or David Trimble. Sure enough, in February 1988 Trimble published a pamphlet, What Choice for Ulster?, arguing for independence.

So, if we can now firmly tie Robinson to MSD, is anyone greatly surprised?
 

PBP voter

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The board of management of a primary school in Loughlinstown, Co Dublin, refused to take two young Traveller boys unless they had a class of their own, a hygiene screening service and other aids, according to documents from the State papers of 1986.
Ireland disgraces itself yet again. :roll:
 

DJP

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Karloff

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Did i hear on the radio that a member of G Fitzgerald's govt suggested giving away Eastern Donegal to the British (in exchange for S Armagh)?

That an Irishman should even consider giving any part of Ireland held by Ireland to the British under any circumstances is outrageous.

Also that Thatcher apparently 'didn't want' the nationalists in the North who were at least in law people she was legally bound to serve - not things that belonged to her that she could give away. It shows very much that that imperialist view of Ireland was well alive even just a few decades ago.
 

Uganda

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Did i hear on the radio that a member of G Fitzgerald's govt suggested giving away Eastern Donegal to the British (in exchange for S Armagh)?

That an Irishman should even consider giving any part of Ireland held by Ireland to the British under any circumstances is outrageous.

Also that Thatcher apparently 'didn't want' the nationalists in the North who were at least in law people she was legally bound to serve - not things that belonged to her that she could give away. It shows very much that that imperialist view of Ireland was well alive even just a few decades ago.
What is outrageous is that Fitzgerald would even consider foisting south Armagh on us.
 

Windowshopper

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Strawberry

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Did anybody see RTE's coverage of this story earlier? Some nonsense about Margaret Thatcher being upset by violence in the North, not a word about the real juicy stuff like Peter Robinson wanting UDI or John Briton bursting into tears about Queen Victoria.
 


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