2 Boys(13) Arrested over Murder of Ana Kreigel(14)

petaljam

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Did you delete the post where I replied to you?

Cannot see it.

Oh PJ, what a silly move.
Not sure why you're even asking, presumably you got the notification.

Look if you want a reply that stays up, cut out the ad homs, it's not that hard.
 


Cdebru

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It would be both inappropriate and unethical of me to comment on this.

Perhaps, I was not clear enough about the point I was making. I was referring to the conduct of boy b's father; his disgraceful outbursts in the court and his refusal to accept that his son was guilty as sin. It would be natural to want to direct anger, hatred and possibly retribution upon that man, he is responsible for this crime too.

If I did this to another human-being my parents would disown me, not pay for an expensive lawyer and blame the Gardai.
So your parents would just presume you were guilty ? Well they know you I guess.
 

Herr Rommel

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Rapist Patrick Nevin was sentenced today for attacks on three women.

Nevin's first known sexual attack on a woman occurred when he was just 17 years old
He is another good reason to bring back the gallows.
 

Shpake

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Conor Gallagher in the Irish Times gives a very good account, but it's kind of presumptuous to call it the complete story.

My sources at the beginning of the trial were the usual run-of-the-mill places like RTE news, Indo, Cork Examiner, Journal IT etc.
The trouble with these is that each version overlaps with the others and gives maybe one, two snippets of extra info that's not in the other ones. I guess that a book will be necessary to cover all the detail and also give the overall picture.
A good example of this is the reaction of Boy A's father concerning his son being allegedly "attacked" by two older teens on the day Ana went missing.
If I recall correctly -- big "if" -- I seem to recall reading that he took his son down to Saint Catherine's park to complain to the park ranger/warden about the incident that very evening.
Sorry, it's too far back. I can't recall in which paper I read this.
But it would appear that Father of Boy A -- believing his son's story -- assumed that his son was innocent. Well that's logical-- Ana hand not yet been reported missing, let alone reported murdered at this point in time.
But this is one part of the story that has not been examined. i.e. At what point in time did the parents A and B come to the realization that their li'l darlings were not all that innocent?
One amusing incident -- if anything can be in any way amusing about this awful crime is that after the Gardai had taken away boy A's clothes and boots to test for the forensics of his two "alleged older teen attackers" , his Da was hot on the phone to the cop shop demanding to have the clothes and boots back. Had Boy A had a little word with his Da in the intervening interval?
In hindsight we might smile and say that the two boyos planned the perfect crime -- remarkable for two thirteen year olds (assisted by the internet maybe) but they didn't understand about CCTV surveillance cameras or DNA forensic analysis.
Boy B, on the other hand really is a dark horse. He gave his interviews to the Gardai in the presence of his mother and solicitor. It's an interesting aspect as to whether he had been "schooled" in how to answer the questions ... and by whom? or did he do it all by himself?
He and boy A had both been on the loose so to speak and had ample time and opportunity to "cook up" some plausible story.... and of course both their stories had to kind of tally with one another.

There's a lot to come out yet.

I think myself that Boy B''s father and his anger at the Gardai, Judge and Jury is kind of judged out of context. If some bloke sees his family being ripped up... he could have an emotion of sadness, anger... one never knows.
It would appear that at the time of the verdict, he seems to have believed that his son was an unwitting participant in the murder.
The press related that the Madam Chairwoman of the Jury, held out the document to read the verdict with shaking hands.
 

Lagertha

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I'm genuinely puzzled by those posters who believe that Boy B is some how innocent or was easily led in the whole thing. Think back to the way that the prosecution took the unusual step of showing the jury the footage of Boy B's interviews at the Garda station. They say that they took that very unusual step because they wanted the jury to see the bizarre way that Boy B calmly lied and repeatedly changed his story while trying to place the blame solely with Boy A.

Boy B is the cold calculated one behind it all. Boy A is just the willing psychotic thug who went happily along with him. I think it's safe to say that Boy A is beyond redemption, he is what he is and whenever he is released he will go on to re offend. Boy B is a whole other kettle of evil.
 

Shpake

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This case more than any other deserves to be televised, like in a Judge Judy prog.
and for two reasons:
It has literally gripped the nation.
How can an member of the public judge the character of boy B from reading the mere transcript of his interview?
It doesn't take a smart-ass lawyer to pull holes in the prosecution's case.... such as
"How can one explain Boy B knowing that Ana was going to be murdered after he came and called to collect her just 20 minutes beforehand? "
or
"All he expected to happen was some snogging between boy A and Ana".

There is one other point. From the press we read that the Gardai knew that Boy B was present in the derelict building. They don't go on to say how the Gards know this or what they know.
But it seems the Gardai used this knowledge (or assumption?) to worm some sort of confession out of him.

Until Boy A spills the beans, gives his side of the story there's a question mark hanging over the case.
If he receives 20 years and Boy B recieves 6 months it might help loosen his tongue a bit... but then again Irish law is real convoluted and strange. It seems the testimony of each boy in the interviews cannot be used against the other fella) -- irish law!
Well two weeks or so from now we'll hear the verdicts (which I'm sure will be appealed) and then the big long wait for the next episode, .... jury selection etc., etc and media circus.
I hope that somehow Mrs & Mr Kriegel and family will be spared a second round of all this.
 

Northsideman

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This case more than any other deserves to be televised, like in a Judge Judy prog.
Are you for fukin real? Been in the boozer for the afternoon?
 

Lagertha

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A case from England, though thankfully not involving murder.
I saw that, absolutely disgraceful. Then you have the case of male prisoners deciding that they identify as females and who are moved to female prisons where some of them go on to rape women.
 

Apple in Eden

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This case more than any other deserves to be televised, like in a Judge Judy prog.
and for two reasons:
It has literally gripped the nation.
How can an member of the public judge the character of boy B from reading the mere transcript of his interview?
It doesn't take a smart-ass lawyer to pull holes in the prosecution's case.... such as
"How can one explain Boy B knowing that Ana was going to be murdered after he came and called to collect her just 20 minutes beforehand? "
or
"All he expected to happen was some snogging between boy A and Ana".

There is one other point. From the press we read that the Gardai knew that Boy B was present in the derelict building. They don't go on to say how the Gards know this or what they know.
But it seems the Gardai used this knowledge (or assumption?) to worm some sort of confession out of him.

Until Boy A spills the beans, gives his side of the story there's a question mark hanging over the case.
If he receives 20 years and Boy B recieves 6 months it might help loosen his tongue a bit... but then again Irish law is real convoluted and strange. It seems the testimony of each boy in the interviews cannot be used against the other fella) -- irish law!
Well two weeks or so from now we'll hear the verdicts (which I'm sure will be appealed) and then the big long wait for the next episode, .... jury selection etc., etc and media circus.
I hope that somehow Mrs & Mr Kriegel and family will be spared a second round of all this.
There will be no new trial only legal reviews.
 

PBP voter

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They are currently being held in Oberstown and will serve their sentences in it.

Now I know the kids in there aren't saints. But is it safe to put these two in with them? A small number of female detainees are in Oberstown currently according to various media reports.
 

cozzy121

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meanwhile GAA star Ashling Thompson laughs and smiles as she walks away
Yeah, I missed out on how she sexually assaulted and killed somebody, because I can't see why else you would relate her case to this one.
 

Politics matters

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They are currently being held in Oberstown and will serve their sentences in it.

Now I know the kids in there aren't saints. But is it safe to put these two in with them? A small number of female detainees are in Oberstown currently according to various media reports.
They should not be imprisoned together, they should be banned from communicating with one and other.
 

yosef shompeter

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They should not be imprisoned together, they should be banned from communicating with one and other.
Guess the country should really have two youth detention centres for serious crimes. Yes it is worrying, Boy A on the far side of puberty and boy B still a child (physically speaking)
I'm not up to date on the latest of police investigative procedures but I was kind of "raised eyebrows"-like when they seemed to be allowed live at home even after the suspicions on them had hardened early on in the investigation. It seems an Garda was very much influenced on "the rights of the child" (not Ana Kriegel, the rights of the suspected ones that is) and didn't want to incarcerate them... so as to remain in compliance with the Childrens' Act.
Well if they did have time to cooperate and construct a story for the interviews, it didn't do them any good.
 


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