2 Boys(13) Arrested over Murder of Ana Kreigel(14)



yosef shompeter

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A one second search of google pictures, shows it is completly surrounded by walls and fences
Sounds reassuring.
Never done time myself, I'm just relating the stories of someone who has.
Are you maintaining that it's top-security? never had a break-out/ escapee etc?
 

cobhguy

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Sounds reassuring.
Never done time myself, I'm just relating the stories of someone who has.
Are you maintaining that it's top-security? never had a break-out/ escapee etc?
Of course not, I am just maintaining that your source of information was completly worng and that you could of verified that in seconds. Which leads to the questions about why you would be so quick to believe something a stranger told you.
 

yosef shompeter

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Well that is just a total and absolute lie. Most immigrants are holding down jobs and paying their own way and contributing their taxes to pay for the state pensions
of the elderly indigenous population.

Ergo, they are immigrants? That is just nuts.
A casual visit to any labour exchange/ dole queue should clear you up of any of your illusions. Someone on Pie put up a thread saying 50% 60% more% of the housing list in north Dublin were non-nationals. Possibly he might have been exaggerating.

Shompeter
Re voodoo mask, church of satan etc.,
:ROFLMAO:
Are you seriously trying to suggest that as proof that they are not Irish? Do you think Irish kids don't have the same access to or interest in the sort of horror fiction which airs this sort of stuff?
Thank God you weren't the detective tasked with solving this murder, if you think that is somehow evidence that they are not Irish. The killers would still running free if you were in charge of the investigation.
Well, Voodoo has its origins and main following outside of Ireland... Church of Satan and such-like, of course you can easily scoff at it all and say it's just teenagers..... and then there is this little matter of a naked tortured body concealed in a derelict house with semen stains on it. Connect the dots.
The identities have been withheld because they are minors and it is the law.
They make stupid laws too, you know. They spend their time making new laws, amending current laws and ablolishing other laws.
It is the same law for everybody - Irish and non Irish.
And it needs to be the law particularly in this case, in order to protect their families from being vindictively targeted by the sort of irrational gobdaws who have been posting hateful bile about them on social media since this case broke.
Furthermore it seems more probable that at least one of the boys is Irish considering that his grandfather lives here.
You have a point here, I've found on the internet some relative from up-country was recognized and beaten up badly. Nevertheless, I'm not entirely convinced of the merits of this legislation. If, after a fit of liberal good will and infused with the spirit of the rights of man, they release the two when they turn 18, 19, 20... and one of them goes on to be a repeat offender under his newly granted identity.... jay! I don't know. That bloke from the Bolger case it seems is not a model citizen.
 

raetsel

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A casual visit to any labour exchange/ dole queue should clear you up of any of your illusions. Someone on Pie put up a thread saying 50% 60% more% of the housing list in north Dublin were non-nationals. Possibly he might have been exaggerating.
Not true:



Well, Voodoo has its origins and main following outside of Ireland... Church of Satan and such-like, of course you can easily scoff at it all and say it's just teenagers..... and then there is this little matter of a naked tortured body concealed in a derelict house with semen stains on it. Connect the dots.
For decades thousands of Irish kids were subjected to appalling sexual and physical abuse, not from foreigners but from our own clergy. The idea that Irish people are less capable of awful crimes than foreigners is laughable.
Irish kids are as exposed to tv, films and music from all over the world, as any other nationality. The boy called it his voodoo mask but in reality it had nothing to do with voodoo. It was just a scary face, with vampire's teeth. The modern representation of the vampire is the creation of an Irishman.
You might as well blame Bram Stoker. When I was an adolescent in the 1960s we were exposed to dozens of horror movies from Hammer Films. It didn't turn us into monsters. Those kids are seriously disturbed. My guess is that it has very little to do with background as the boys' families have been reported to be pretty normal decent people.
 

Apple in Eden

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Not true:




For decades thousands of Irish kids were subjected to appalling sexual and physical abuse, not from foreigners but from our own clergy. The idea that Irish people are less capable of awful crimes than foreigners is laughable.
Irish kids are as exposed to tv, films and music from all over the world, as any other nationality. The boy called it his voodoo mask but in reality it had nothing to do with voodoo. It was just a scary face, with vampire's teeth. The modern representation of the vampire is the creation of an Irishman.
You might as well blame Bram Stoker. When I was an adolescent in the 1960s we were exposed to dozens of horror movies from Hammer Films. It didn't turn us into monsters. Those kids are seriously disturbed. My guess is that it has very little to do with background as the boys' families have been reported to be pretty normal decent people.
Very funny you should raise the issue of clerical abuse on this thread but there is a link. That is the legal gravy train. Sexual abuse by priests and brothers and subsequent cover ups while vile have been grossly exaaggerated. A lot of the claims brought forward
Have been fradulent the legal profession only too happy to facilitate the compensation merry go round. Now funnilly enough these are more or less the same guys who are minting millions as immigration advisors happily going along with any auld claim. Now join the dots.
 

Pyewacket

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Very funny you should raise the issue of clerical abuse on this thread but there is a link. That is the legal gravy train. Sexual abuse by priests and brothers and subsequent cover ups while vile have been grossly exaaggerated. A lot of the claims brought forward
Have been fradulent the legal profession only too happy to facilitate the compensation merry go round. Now funnilly enough these are more or less the same guys who are minting millions as immigration advisors happily going along with any auld claim. Now join the dots.

Linkie poos, evidence, you know the usual stuff real people, not internet weirdos want to see?

You have got that, have you? Pull it out of your bum and lets inspect it.
 

Apple in Eden

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Linkie poos, evidence, you know the usual stuff real people, not internet weirdos want to see?

You have got that, have you? Pull it out of your bum and lets inspect it.
Lowlife bullshit denial representative of a diet of anti clerical propaganda.
 

Round tower

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Surprised that no one has started a thread or has not mentioned it on here, it's not the same but could have ended in another traagic ending if she was not able to escape. It's terifying that kids at 7 years of age could be involved and it will have to be treated very sensitively
 

Apple in Eden

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LIke I said, you have nothing up your bum at all. Just moanie moanie whine whine when anyone asks you for FACTS. :)
FACTS your type will find on the Irish news media and the beloved Irish Times. The TRUTH is what I am interested in sunshine and if I have the time I will enlighten you someday.
 

Pyewacket

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Surprised that no one has started a thread or has not mentioned it on here, it's not the same but could have ended in another traagic ending if she was not able to escape. It's terifying that kids at 7 years of age could be involved and it will have to be treated very sensitively
I love lines like @INDO they came from decent families.
 

Orbit v2

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I love lines like @INDO they came from decent families.
It's code for the carpet being raised and a sweeping brush hurriedly brought out. That said, I think the gardai should be let investigate it with as little intrusion from outside as possible. I don't really trust the details reported in the media. RTE went full on hysteria mode, with warnings to young children, but then didn't say very much. They won't know what happened exactly until all four have been interviewed by the gardai.
 

flashforward

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Boy A will be a huge concern.
I suspect boy B was manipulating boy A, so would be just as large a concern, if not more so than boy A. Total lack of remorse in interviews, constant changing of his story to suit newly presented evidence all point to him being a pretty dangerous individual, particularly given his young age and the seriousness of the situation he was in.
 

yosef shompeter

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A fascinating point that someone raised on facebook somewhere:
That boy B persisted in his lying after he had implicated Boy A.
What was his motivation for doing this?
One would have to check back on the timeline of events to examine the "Chess game" going on between Boy B and the Garda inteviewers.
However, it would appear that at the beginning, Boy A and Boy B had some sort of pact to tell stories that supported the version that Boy A had been attacked by "older teenagers" -- hence Boy A's blood-stained clothes and injuries.

At some point... (where exactly?) once it became clear to Boy B that Boy A had acted the eejit -- blown it so-to-speak and allowed the guards to get his boots and voodoo gear with all his and Ana's forensics on it, Boy B must have reasoned: Well tough chit on him. He brought it on himself, no point in us both ending up in the Chokey or the funny-farm and so boy B tailored his story to get his own head out of the noose.
As I mentioned before, I'm curious as to whether boy B had been "schooled " in interview technique -- or were his stories made up "all on his own"-like?

There is the off-chance, (pretty slim mind you) that he is the easily manipulated child that his Da maintains.... that he just went along with Boy A's plan to view some "live sex in action" so to speak, but did not know beforehand that it was going to turn into murder and torture.
In effect that the "schooling" he received from some adults in the know ended up making an awful impression on judge, jury , guards, everybody.

Yes, maybe the chess-game aspect of it all deserves more examination.

Plea bargaining might be one way of getting at the truth. The two of them might compete -- each with their version of the reeeeeeal truth.
 

yosef shompeter

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Following the guilty verdicts in June, Mr Justice Paul McDermott remanded both boys in custody to Oberstown Detention Centre, and adjourned sentencing.
The judge also ordered probation and psychiatrists reports for both defendants, as well as school reports and any other available reports, saying he was "seeking professional assistance" in relation to this very difficult case.
When the matter came before Judge McDermott earlier this month, he further ordered assessments for each boy by consultant child psychiatrists and consultant forensic psychiatrists.
The judge made the orders after Professor Harry Kennedy, consultant forensic psychiatrist and executive clinical director, National Forensic Mental Health Service had corresponded with the DPP's office
The Gardaí have done a wonderful job, above and beyond expectations in a difficult sensitive case.
As regards the above matter quoted (Indo)... are these lads paid by the hour or what? It sounds awful self-important and pompous... they haven't got their examinations done yet?
I noticed that the latest court session for sentencing was attended by the parties for the accused....
and there in the background were poor Mr and Mrs Kriegel... who had hoped that it would all be over.
They have to wait till October... and maybe then they can try to close the last chapter in the book.

If you'rE planning a crime, make sure you do it in Ireland :(
Whatever you do, don't be a victim.
 

yosef shompeter

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Not true:




For decades thousands of Irish kids were subjected to appalling sexual and physical abuse, not from foreigners but from our own clergy. The idea that Irish people are less capable of awful crimes than foreigners is laughable.
Irish kids are as exposed to tv, films and music from all over the world, as any other nationality. The boy called it his voodoo mask but in reality it had nothing to do with voodoo. It was just a scary face, with vampire's teeth. The modern representation of the vampire is the creation of an Irishman.
You might as well blame Bram Stoker. When I was an adolescent in the 1960s we were exposed to dozens of horror movies from Hammer Films. It didn't turn us into monsters. Those kids are seriously disturbed. My guess is that it has very little to do with background as the boys' families have been reported to be pretty normal decent people.
Well we are heading toward full employment now, but any of my visits to the labour exchange... this is going back a few years ago... one would have thought one was in Asia or Africa. The new Irish were more than very well represented.

Irish and crime... there's good and bad everywhere, on this complicated subject I think one has to view the statistics...where it's very easy to get lost.
Not something for a one-reply discussion here. It appears to be that the first arrivals are law abiding, the following generations cause the bother. This is going on the experience in UK France Scandinavia Benelux and Germany.
But that's in the past. Now drugs are widespread and might change the figures.
Suffice to say, a belief in right and wrong, a duty to society, a wish to be a good citizen makes for the creation of law and order.
If a group hold some other belief contrary to this, then you've got Toxteth
Bradford, the Parisian Banlieus and all the other no-go areas.
 


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