2 Boys(13) Arrested over Murder of Ana Kreigel(14)

soubresauts

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That's a very lazy answer.
Give me specific examples of where I have ๐Ÿ™„ jumped to any conclusion on the basis of fake news.
You cannot see that the Irish Times, Guardian, RTE, etc. have abandoned any decent standards of journalism. You just lap up their daily, nay hourly, offerings of "Trump bad", "Brexit bad", "Boris bad", never seeing the wood for the trees.
 


raetsel

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You cannot see that the Irish Times, Guardian, RTE, etc. have abandoned any decent standards of journalism. You just lap up their daily, nay hourly, offerings of "Trump bad", "Brexit bad", "Boris bad", never seeing the wood for the trees.
That's a moronic response. Trump is a proven habitual liar. Johnson was sacked from not one, but two jobs during his life so far. Brexit was sold to the British on the basis of a pack of lies. And you claim I believe in fake news. Get up the road you bloody fool!
I've no more time to waste on you by the way. Onto "ignore" with you. :)
 

atkin8

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That's a moronic response. Trump is a proven habitual liar. Johnson was sacked from not one, but two jobs during his life so far. Brexit was sold to the British on the basis of a pack of lies. And you claim I believe in fake news. Get up the road you bloody fool!
I've no more time to waste on you by the way. Onto "ignore" with you. :)
So who in your opinion is good as you have gone off topic ? The family of one of the boys has had to move because of harassment .
 
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raetsel

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So who in your opinion is good ?
How is this relevant to the subject of the thread? I was subjected to an ad hominem attack out of the blue by some weird chap who is now on my "ignore" panel and although I exercised my right to respond once, I'm not going to entertain further irrelevant off topic discussion for obvious reasons.
 

yosef shompeter

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I very much doubt that unless you are nearly ninety years old.
Your problem is that you jump to all sorts of conclusions on the basis of God-knows-what.
I had thought from your idealistic posts that you were somewhat of a tender age. What's that quote from Bismark or Churchhill (or both maybe)
"A 18 year old who is not a communist has no heart
a 40 year old who is a communist has no brain." Birmark was referring to the communards of the Paris 1848 revolution... Stalin and Lenin came somewhat later... so you could use the term socialist.

"Jumping to all sorts of conclusions on the basis of God-knows-what".
I have to say you have a point.
God knows what the motive -- or especially the background behind the motive to the murder of this child was. How easily some posters scoff at the notion that it was something to do with some form of devil cult. Suffice to say the Guards saw fit to publish it. And you're right! God knows and we'll never know. The shrinks will (maybe) find out once the two are sent to Oberstown, But if someone from the general public were to ask, it would be abruptly refused as it would be in breech of ummmmm.... doctor-patient confidentiality or some such shyte.
So we have some poor child tortured, raped and murdered, we don't know who did it because they are under-age, we may not know how properly justice has been served as we don't know the backgrounds of the murderers.

Boy A seems to be an open and shut case, but boy B... it has me very puzzled.
So you said it boy. " God knows"
See caption.
 

raetsel

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How is this relevant to the subject of the thread? I was subjected to an ad hominem attack out of the blue by some weird chap who is now on my "ignore" panel and although I exercised my right to respond once, I'm not going to entertain further irrelevant off topic discussion for obvious reasons.
To add to this, if you want to discuss the question you posed start a thread about it, PM me telling me that you've done that, and I will respond when I get a chance. However
I had thought from your idealistic posts that you were somewhat of a tender age. What's that quote from Bismark or Churchhill (or both maybe)
"A 18 year old who is not a communist has no heart
a 40 year old who is a communist has no brain." Birmark was referring to the communards of the Paris 1848 revolution... Stalin and Lenin came somewhat later... so you could use the term socialist.
Yeah but being objective and resisting the temptation to jump to false conclusions on the basis of one's personal prejudices is not the mark of an idealist or a socialist. And of course I am neither of those.
If anything my objectivity is a very conservative characteristic which derives from a lifetime of experience working in jobs where bowing to one's prejudices was seen as the ultimate in stupidity, and often led to costly mistakes.
 

soubresauts

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To add to this, if you want to discuss the question you posed start a thread about it, PM me telling me that you've done that, and I will respond when I get a chance. However

Yeah but being objective and resisting the temptation to jump to false conclusions on the basis of one's personal prejudices is not the mark of an idealist or a socialist. And of course I am neither of those.
If anything my objectivity is a very conservative characteristic which derives from a lifetime of experience working in jobs where bowing to one's prejudices was seen as the ultimate in stupidity, and often led to costly mistakes.
Wow, such insufferable self-importance and condescension!
 

yosef shompeter

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To add to this, if you want to discuss the question you posed start a thread about it, PM me telling me that you've done that, and I will respond when I get a chance. However
Not sure what you're on about here.
Yeah but being objective and resisting the temptation to jump to false conclusions on the basis of one's personal prejudices is not the mark of an idealist or a socialist. And of course I am neither of those.
If anything my objectivity is a very conservative characteristic which derives from a lifetime of experience working in jobs where bowing to one's prejudices was seen as the ultimate in stupidity, and often led to costly mistakes.
You must know that no one except the judge, jury journos & gardai are allowed in to view the proceedings. So all your shtuff about being objective and avoiding rash conclusions is off the wall.
The only thing Joe soap can (legally) go on is what the journalists and gardai publish.
The case of Boy A simple enough in regard to whether he's guilty or not guilty. The sheer awfulness of his crime and the kind of sentence he receives is going to be a topic in the papers for years, maybe decades to come.
The case of Boy B.... that really is something. He told lies... but that's not murder. He was afraid of or browbeaten by boy A... and tried with withhold the truth from the guards... still not murder.
But without viewing the proceedings... and being able to make a judgement call as to his character... all joe soap is left with is his imagination....
And the fact that the gardai and jury are convinced of his full guilt.

Use of cold logic here is reserved for the judge jury and others present in the trial.
Too many loose ends for mere newspaper readers... for example whether his parents took a hand in how he should answer the Garda's questions. What communication took place between boy A and boy B when they were preparing for the cover-up or Garda interviews.
Whether there was communication between the parents of boy B and the parents of Boy B.

My view is that several books will be published on this in the coming years
 

raetsel

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Not sure what you're on about here.
It was an appendix to the previous post addressed to atkin8.

You must know that no one except the judge, jury journos & gardai are allowed in to view the proceedings. So all your shtuff about being objective and avoiding rash conclusions is off the wall.
It is anything but off the wall. In the absence of little, if any evidence, as to the backgrounds of these two boys, the most objective thing any reasonable person can do is to not make assumptions about what those backgrounds are.
It is simply nuts to say, "No mention of Jesus, only of Satan. Aha, eureka, this is proof that they cannot be Irish!" How the hell could you even think for one minute that one follows from the other? :ROFLMAO:
Maybe you'd care to tell us where in the world all this Satan worshipping stuff comes from?
 

raetsel

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So who in your opinion is good as you have gone off topic ? The family of one of the boys has had to move because of harassment .
:ROFLMAO: Oh the sheer dishonesty of the editing of this post after my response to it, is an absolute classic of the genre.
 

atkin8

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:ROFLMAO: Oh the sheer dishonesty of the editing of this post after my response to it, is an absolute classic of the genre.
I added the the sentence rather than a new post . This was not necessarily aimed at you but keep trying .
 

raetsel

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I added the the sentence rather than a new post . This was not necessarily aimed at you but keep trying .
You're a terribly lazy bugger then.
And you're stupid as well.
I wasn't the person who took the conversation off topic. That was Soubresauts, if you weren't too lazy to check back, you'd have realised it.
 

atkin8

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You're a terribly lazy bugger then.
And you're stupid as well.
I wasn't the person who took the conversation off topic. That was Soubresauts, if you weren't too lazy to check back, you'd have realised it.
You are an abusive poster .
 

atkin8

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๐Ÿ™„
Not a rant in sight. Just a calm, honest opinion. Put me on ignore if you cannot accept it.
Still just name calling abusive nonsense Rubbish . You should have ignored Soubresauts in that case instead of dragging it on which is your juvenile form , practice what you preach .
 
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Apple in Eden

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That's a moronic response. Trump is a proven habitual liar. Johnson was sacked from not one, but two jobs during his life so far. Brexit was sold to the British on the basis of a pack of lies. And you claim I believe in fake news. Get up the road you bloody fool!
I've no more time to waste on you by the way. Onto "ignore" with you. :)
Good your contributions are marginal at best but mostly meaningless.
 

yosef shompeter

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It was an appendix to the previous post addressed to atkin8.


It is anything but off the wall. In the absence of little, if any evidence, as to the backgrounds of these two boys, the most objective thing any reasonable person can do is to not make assumptions about what those backgrounds are.
It is simply nuts to say, "No mention of Jesus, only of Satan. Aha, eureka, this is proof that they cannot be Irish!" How the hell could you even think for one minute that one follows from the other? :ROFLMAO:
Maybe you'd care to tell us where in the world all this Satan worshipping stuff comes from?
Did you ever stop to consider that this country has been rocked, I repeat rocked by one scandal after another in the last 30 years:
Paedophile priests, bishops assisting in hushing it all up, active in keeping it all out of the press, Nuns who kept poorer unmarried mothers in slave conditions, and sold their babies to well-financially-posltered Americans, Charity bosses creaming off enormous salaries and pensions for the themselves.
The gardai having to call in an MI5 man from the north to clean up their show?
I could go on and on.
And all you can do is conform. I'll let my imagination run freely again, however much it might hurt your feelings: I'd say you sport a Fรกinne and are fluent in civil service Irish -- the type that no one speaks. You are a regular attendee at your local cuman and believe everything that you read in the Indo, Sindo and Irish times. In two words you are an iron conformist.

I'm a believer in a free press in an free and open society. It clears the air of all sorts rumours and false allegations. If the govt tries to muzzle the press well it's little wonder that all sorts of assumptions and rumours fill the void.
It was this control of the press that allowed all this corruption to take place in the first place.
One justice proclaimed that this anonymity for child criminals is in compliance with some United Nations directive
These notions of United nations human rights guff about anonymity for child criminals is one big error. A glance at the members of who make up the United nations will show you that there is an overwhelming majority of third world dictators in the assembly -- many no doubt under obligation to financially strong countries . Very few free democratic nations there at all.
As a matter of fact Saudi Arabia has recently somehow manoeuvred its way onto the UN committee for human rights.
Go Figure.

In my opinion, all that need to be done is for the justice system to look across the water at how the Brits handled the "Jamie Bolger" case. That's what the Irish do 99% of the time anyway: Look across the water to see how the Brits handle things. And very often it's the right way of doing things.
On that little matter of the Church of Satan, the voodoo mask and the dead tortured and raped victim ... and the list of members (each with his own symbol) and rules of the ummm... "homework club"... it's quite plausible that there was some tight, cult-like membership. The shrinks should work on that in the coming years. The gardai didn't use it in evidence, but saw fit to make mention of it.
Now voodoo has it's origins in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribean.
Certainly in my day it didn't have any roots in Ireland. Draw your own conclusions
 

raetsel

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Did you ever stop to consider that this country has been rocked, I repeat rocked by one scandal after another in the last 30 years:
Paedophile priests, bishops assisting in hushing it all up, active in keeping it all out of the press, Nuns who kept poorer unmarried mothers in slave conditions, and sold their babies to well-financially-posltered Americans, Charity bosses creaming off enormous salaries and pensions for the themselves.
Wtf has that to do with this case?
The gardai having to call in an MI5 man from the north to clean up their show?
I could go on and on.
Or this? It's called the PSNI, not MI5, by the way.
And all you can do is conform. I'll let my imagination run freely again, however much it might hurt your feelings: I'd say you sport a Fรกinne and are fluent in civil service Irish -- the type that no one speaks. You are a regular attendee at your local cuman and believe everything that you read in the Indo, Sindo and Irish times. In two words you are an iron conformist.
:ROFLMAO:
And you're off again making false assumptions. I have to admit that I have a fairly poor grip of Irish (I did Ulster Irish at school by the way - whatever civil servants in the south speak I have no idea) and I wouldn't know how to find the local "cuman", whatever that is. I rarely buy newspapers anymore and wouldn't be seen dead with the Independent titles.
I'm a believer in a free press in an free and open society. It clears the air of all sorts rumours and false allegations. If the govt tries to muzzle the press well it's little wonder that all sorts of assumptions and rumours fill the void.
It was this control of the press that allowed all this corruption to take place in the first place.
One justice proclaimed that this anonymity for child criminals is in compliance with some United Nations directive
These notions of United nations human rights guff about anonymity for child criminals is one big error.
Anonymity for child criminals is a long established and accepted principle and the idea that it is just being used to prevent the media from "revealing" that the murderers are of overseas origin, is bats.
 
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