2 Boys(13) Arrested over Murder of Ana Kreigel(14)

yosef shompeter

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2011
Wtf has that to do with this case?
The culture of secrecy has allowed and allows corruption to fester. Fresh air and sunlight (speaking figuratively here for a free press) are the best disinfectants.
Ireland's institutions don't seem capable of reform, but the one thing that forces reform on them is the glare of the media.
Or this? It's called the PSNI, not MI5, by the way.
It is comedown for the Garda siochana to have to call in an outsider to initiate reform.

And you're off again making false assumptions. I have to admit that I have a fairly poor grip of Irish (I did Ulster Irish at school by the way - whatever civil servants in the south speak I have no idea) and I wouldn't know how to find the local "cuman", whatever that is. I rarely buy newspapers anymore and wouldn't be seen dead with the Independent titles.

Anonymity for child criminals is a long established and accepted principle and the idea that it is just being used to prevent the media from "revealing" that the murderers are of overseas origin, is bats.
Not that long established as the Jamie Bolger case shows.
Strange that someone should come out with an observation like that. There are hundreds of examples where the media and institutions make eejits of themselves trying to conceal that a suspect is a foreign national. It's got to the stage where if no description is given of the accused that it's a safe assumption that he is a foreign national . One Garda press-release announced that they were looking for a "tanned gentleman" in relation to a molestation suspect.
As regards anonymity for child criminals, it's one of those social experiments. Like most social policies it has its good sides and bad sides. It might be good and might work for children and minor crimes. In this case it doesn't seem to be working:
One family has moved already, they say due to anonymous threats.
One or more poor unfortunate teen was falsely identified on social media as being one of the accused.
The only person in Lucan or Leixlip (or perhaps half of Dublin) who doesn't know about it must be deaf, blind or both.
Some journo on Cork radio mistakenly revealed one of the names.
In my own belief, I'm of the view that withholding information about a crime like this is disruptive of the justice system. I can easily imagine that Boy B did not actually know the full extent of Boy A's plans. It's fully conceivable that he new that boy A wanted to have sex with Ana, but did not know that of his plans to rape and murder her. His continuous lying? That could be explained if his parents were advising him -- admittedly with disastrous results.
In my own personal view this anonymity ruling is steering the place towards some place such as North Korea. "Child raped, tortured murdered?" Nothing to see here, move on. But, again in my own personal view its part of one long continuation of the institutions of Ireland to maintain their mania for secrecy, whether it's the cruelty of the industrial schools, the selling of unmarried mothers' babies overseas, or the sexual attacks of the clerical abusers. What we should have is an open society.
But if the judiciary would just get a move on, this whole thing would simply die down and the next item will fill the airways.

yosef shompeter

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2011
On boy B's guilt or innocence, I'm simply going on the media reports -- especially his defence lawyer.
Well with the case being held "in camera" i.e. secrecy to protect the identity of minors, that's all I or most of us here can go on...
But I note that an Garda Síochana seemed to allow the pair of them a free run of the place before inviting them into the station to be arrested (yes!), it could be that there was much method in their tardiness.
The guards seem to have been very professional in handling this case. It could very well be that they had the two accused under close surveillance during their last days of freedom. And whatever they found it, it persuaded them put boy B through the series of interviews.
As one journo put it, it's one thing to be sure of something, it's another thing entirely to be able to prove it in court.

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