• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

20%+ live in jobless houses, but analysis ignores root cause


Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,736
I heard this on 6:30am news and then heard the ESRI analyst responsible on MI on way to work.

She and interviewer ignored the very, very obvious cause of this, despite referring to other countries where unemployment is higher but its impact on households is lower.

Basically the Irish state funds babies, so whether you're in full employment or have no job prospects it's "okay" to have kids because the tax payer picks up the tab.

In Ireland way too many kids are being brought up in homes that can't support them, nor ever will be able to. This ESRI report is just another part of the evidence trail that must lead the government to solving the "mystery" of why we have so many criminals, so many ASBOs, so many cradle-to-grave welfare dependents and such a high social welfare tab.

Over 20% in jobless households - ESRI study - RTÉ News
 


Troy_337

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
614
Are you suggesting public policy move in the direction of the one child family, or institute policies that reward couples that adopt orphans instead of reproducing their own children?
 
D

Dylan2010

I heard the ERSI will be on Mastermind next week..specialised subject will be Stating the Bleeding Obvious !
 

Crazy horse 6

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
13,515
Posted this on another thread this morning good idea to post OP. Disgraceful the government have failed the people of the state. Time for a change.
 

Druidess

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
2,593
Perhaps it would be better to cap welfare to any one household to fixed amount, disincentivizing larger families.

It could also be an idea to phase out child benefit, redirecting the funds towards services to directly benefit children.

I feel it is important to remember that in Ireland today, many people out of the unemployed are actually searching for a job and paid their taxes. It's really important to differentiate between them and cradle to grave welfare dependants.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,736
Are you suggesting public policy move in the direction of the one child family, or institute policies that reward couples that adopt orphans instead of reproducing their own children?
No - I'm suggesting public policy should do more to ensure people can afford the kids they have, and if they can't afford them they should probably be made consider NOT having them.

I'm thinking back to the night before the budget where a lone parent of two (once being careless, but two???) was worried that the government might "take" some of her CA, dole, rent allowance.

Now with two kids and NO partner this lady was never going to be able to work, but that never seemed to concern her as long as the state kept a payin'.
 

Victor Meldrew

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
7,172
Are you suggesting public policy move in the direction of the one child family, or institute policies that reward couples that adopt orphans instead of reproducing their own children?
Probably more along the lines of "if the middle class have to manage their reproduction to align it with their means, then we resent having to fund the consequence free environment of the underclass"

When over half your salary is funding these people you tend to get a bit miffed.

If the middle class are "afraid of having too many kids" , then we need to make the underclass afraid of it.

We need to stop infantalising these people.

Welfare is a safety net, not a hammock.
 

Victor Meldrew

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
7,172
Perhaps it would be better to cap welfare to any one household to fixed amount, disincentivizing larger families.

It could also be an idea to phase out child benefit, redirecting the funds towards services to directly benefit children.
Childcare grants and early childhood education intervention would be huge strides in this direction.

We have lost the tax credits for having kids, hence bloated kids allowance, but if my two boys had the €3,120 put towards childcare or education (so stay at home mums/dads can benefit) then that would be fair. And would stop the feckless buying slabs of beer with child benefit.

Education, Education, Education.....
 

ednw1

Active member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
113
Posted this on another thread this morning good idea to post OP. Disgraceful the government have failed the people of the state. Time for a change.
a change to what exactly (and dont forget succesive governments since 1997 when i moved here have failed the people of state - and probably before )
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,218
No - I'm suggesting public policy should do more to ensure people can afford the kids they have, and if they can't afford them they should probably be made consider NOT having them.

I'm thinking back to the night before the budget where a lone parent of two (once being careless, but two???) was worried that the government might "take" some of her CA, dole, rent allowance.

Now with two kids and NO partner this lady was never going to be able to work, but that never seemed to concern her as long as the state kept a payin'.
We could sterilise them, perhaps?
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,272
Twitter
I have a life.
I suppose it sounds very harsh but, single mothers of multiple babies x multible fathers getting cash should be stopped. End of story. It would take decades to change the mindset of people towards it but the bottom line is that it is not right morally to keep it up and if anything encourage it.

Same with the figures of long term unemployed. They are on a list. They know who they are. They should collectively be grouped locally into basic maintenance crews for elderly, and road cleaning rubbish clearing in rivers, canals etc. They are already been paid for it so why is it not organised and just done. It would stop some of the litter and longterm get a bit of pride into the area.

Collectively an empty house should be kitted out in the local area, used as a creche while the mothers take turns in a facility to learn how to cook meals for themselves and families and the elderly. It would turn into a business. It would go on in every locality. There would be no way out of getting involved. It would save millions in VdeP bills etc. If run correctly it would eliminate food poverty in homeless and poorer families etc. It would give people a sense of purpose. Give them some self worth and change this mad welfare system we have.

If you had a business and needed things done and times were tough would you bring in and pay an outside team to do basic stuff while your workers were sitting around...idle? You would like hell.

So why is common sense never an option in Irish problems? because the 'elite' are unable to manage it, they cannot see it, they are not creative, they are pretty useless especially at motivation and simply getting things done. Thats why people say make Michael O'Leary leader of the country or head of The Dept. of Common Sense. We can not do it.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,402
I heard this on 6:30am news and then heard the ESRI analyst responsible on MI on way to work.

She and interviewer ignored the very, very obvious cause of this, despite referring to other countries where unemployment is higher but its impact on households is lower.

Basically the Irish state funds babies, so whether you're in full employment or have no job prospects it's "okay" to have kids because the tax payer picks up the tab.

In Ireland way too many kids are being brought up in homes that can't support them, nor ever will be able to. This ESRI report is just another part of the evidence trail that must lead the government to solving the "mystery" of why we have so many criminals, so many ASBOs, so many cradle-to-grave welfare dependents and such a high social welfare tab.

Over 20% in jobless households - ESRI study - RTÉ News
So you would be happy to allow only the wealthy to have kids? What about our aging population, who will look after them and pay the pensions? If you got your way the native Irish population would collapse and we would have to allows hundreads of thousands of more immigrants to enter the State. Would you be happy for immigrants to take care of our ageing population?

We have so many criminals because of the legal aid system. The State and Legal system has enabled criminals for the last 30 years by giving suspended and low sentences for crime. This in turn has led to people committing crime because there is very little detterant.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,218
I suppose it sounds very harsh but, single mothers of multiple babies x multible fathers getting cash should be stopped. End of story. It would take decades to change the mindset of people towards it but the bottom line is that it is not right morally to keep it up and if anything encourage it.

Same with the figures of long term unemployed. They are on a list. They know who they are. They should collectively be grouped locally into basic maintenance crews for elderly, and road cleaning rubbish clearing in rivers, canals etc. They are already been paid for it so why is it not organised and just done. It would stop some of the litter and longterm get a bit of pride into the area.

Collectively an empty house should be kitted out in the local area, used as a creche while the mothers take turns in a facility to learn how to cook meals for themselves and families and the elderly. It would turn into a business. It would go on in every locality. There would be no way out of getting involved.

If you had a business and needed things done and times were tough would you bring in and pay an outside team to do basic stuff while your workers were sitting around...idle? You would like hell.

So why is common sense never an option in Irish problems? because the 'elite' are unable to manage it, they cannot see it, they are not creative, they are pretty useless especially at motivation and simply getting things done. Thats why people say make Michael O'Leary leader of the country or head of The Dept. of Common Sense. We can not do it.
Perhaps we could set up some collective farms and send all those long-term unemployed architects and solicitors to work on them. Then we could burn any books that dared to suggest that life had ever been any different. And as for those unmarried hussies with babies, they could provide cheap laundry services for the righteous rich, couldn't they?
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,272
Twitter
I have a life.
Perhaps we could set up some collective farms and send all those long-term unemployed architects and solicitors to work on them. Then we could burn any books that dared to suggest that life had ever been any different. And as for those unmarried hussies with babies, they could provide cheap laundry services for the righteous rich, couldn't they?
I think you are missing the point Stats, Local unemployed people working for their own local people, in their area, for their own good and been paid for it is no reason to burn books and be cynical. The 'hussies' you refer to are mothers who have or can be taught a skill to help themselves and their families and others in their own local area.

The rich+righteous already get laundry allowances.

What are your proposals for long term unemployed? just leave it as it is so as they are fodder for P.ie posters? Creativity man. Change.
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,301
Ooh I can tell this is gonna be a goodun. P.ie takes the extreme minority and holds them up as the example. I'm sure it serves some public service, even if it's only a place the Randians can come and vent their spleen.

Season of good will me hole






















Gowan mention the wide screen TV's and Sky sports
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,272
Twitter
I have a life.
Eoghanacht, do you think my proposals are extreme? getting people to stand up for themselves and be a credible part of society?

What are your proposals for long term unemployed?
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,272
Twitter
I have a life.
It's on NewsTalk 106 now.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,736
So you would be happy to allow only the wealthy to have kids? What about our aging population, who will look after them and pay the pensions? If you got your way the native Irish population would collapse and we would have to allows hundreads of thousands of more immigrants to enter the State. Would you be happy for immigrants to take care of our ageing population?

We have so many criminals because of the legal aid system. The State and Legal system has enabled criminals for the last 30 years by giving suspended and low sentences for crime. This in turn has led to people committing crime because there is very little detterant.
22% of people come from "job less" homes - what don't you find unacceptable about that?

You don't need to be wealthy to have kids, you just need to be able to support them. As other posters mentioned, why not provide free childcare or education (for both parent and child), but no, what we do is throw money at lone parents and long term unemployed parents and expect nothing in return.
 

daveL

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,591
Are you suggesting public policy move in the direction of the one child family, or institute policies that reward couples that adopt orphans instead of reproducing their own children?
no; just moving towards supporting those working families who raise kids that are also more likely to work and contribute to society

maybe directing more into providing services rather than cash in lieu of services would also be a sensible strategy
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,218
I think you are missing the point Stats, Local unemployed people working for their own local people, in their area, for their own good and been paid for it is no reason to burn books and be cynical. The 'hussies' you refer to are mothers who have or can be taught a skill to help themselves and their families and others in their own local area.

The rich+righteous already get laundry allowances.

What are your proposals for long term unemployed? just leave it as it is so as they are fodder for P.ie posters? Creativity man. Change.
There is only one sustainable solution to unemployment; you know what it is. Underlying most attacks on unmarried mothers there is a thinly veiled layer of misogyny and a revulsion at female sexuality getting out of male control. I'm not saying you feel that way, but that is the kind of language you are using.

As for local people providing local services, I'm all for it; why don;t we have more CE schemes? But when you use phrases like 'they know who they are' and 'they should collectively be grouped' you are, like it or not, using the language of threat and implying that people deserve to be punished for being unemployed. This during a period of prolonged economic downturn and a collapse in available work.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top