2017: Kinahan v Hutchs



ShoutingIsLeadership

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Three given life sentences for murder of Gareth Hutch

Well done to Gardai, three murderers off the streets for 14 years at least.
Convicting the sister of murder and sending her down for life sends a real message to everyone
"You don't have to pull the trigger, get involved in any aspect of an assassination, and you will get life"
Proper order
It's a shame that this couldn't have been a jury trial. Surely as a State we can put in proper jury protections?

Also, why is it assumed that a certain class of defendant will threaten jurors? Minority report future crime territory...

(My concern is for the process, not the three people, lest anybody think otherwise)
 

sic transit

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It's a shame that this couldn't have been a jury trial. Surely as a State we can put in proper jury protections?

Also, why is it assumed that a certain class of defendant will threaten jurors? Minority report future crime territory...

(My concern is for the process, not the three people, lest anybody think otherwise)
Harks back to not long-gone days of those who would not just threaten jurors. The type of defendant here seems even more determined to ensure their liberty at any cost. I think the process is fine but hopefully at some point its need will be redundant.

This caught my eye, about one of the accused, as wildly contradictory. "she is a person of good character, the conviction was the result of her involvement in her brother's affairs."
 

cyberianpan

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There is no Hutch crime gang

The loose association around the Hutchs is mainly Garda driven

And has been for a long time before that dumb Garda Regency Hotel op

We saw what happens when Honest Copper meets Garda Mainstream ? Det Superintendent Fox took his own life once he realised what was going on

This is a sick & sordid scandal ...lets....see

Cyp
 

GDPR

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There is no Hutch crime gang

The loose association around the Hutchs is mainly Garda driven

And has been for a long time before that dumb Garda Regency Hotel op

We saw what happens when Honest Copper meets Garda Mainstream ? Det Superintendent Fox took his own life once he realised what was going on

This is a sick & sordid scandal ...lets....see

Cyp
Aren't they all? Must be hard to keep on top of them. Busy, busy, busy cyp.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Harks back to not long-gone days of those who would not just threaten jurors. The type of defendant here seems even more determined to ensure their liberty at any cost. I think the process is fine but hopefully at some point its need will be redundant.

This caught my eye, about one of the accused, as wildly contradictory. "[FONT=&]she is a person of good character, the conviction was the result of her involvement in her brother's affairs."[/FONT]
But the language there...a type of defendant. All defendants are innocent until proven guilty.
 

sic transit

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But the language there...a type of defendant. All defendants are innocent until proven guilty.
They are but that doesn't mean friends and family will not support them in any way they can. In the context of who they might associate with and the charges in this situation there would be a perceived risk. They still have the right of appeal.
 

cyberianpan

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Note the relative lack of heroin interdictions in Dublin North city centre

Ditto the lack of dealers being busted

Off that alone, it is reasonable to ask of the Gardaí: "Do ye license heroin dealing, and, does money change hands ? "

Cyp
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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They are but that doesn't mean friends and family will not support them in any way they can. In the context of who they might associate with and the charges in this situation there would be a perceived risk. They still have the right of appeal.
But appeal to a non jury court.

I'm struggling to see how a non-jury trial is not prejudicial to a defendant, other than if all trials were non jury.
 

sic transit

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But appeal to a non jury court.

I'm struggling to see how a non-jury trial is not prejudicial to a defendant, other than if all trials were non jury.
All appeals are non-jury. TBH I'm not sure where you're going with all this. Ideally this format should not be required but our history, especially with paramilitaries, has taught us that unfortunately it is. These types of cases come from a world where there is no value on life, where any life is completely disposable and where punishment is just an inconvenience. It's no great leap to suggest that a jury member would be a prime target and not only during a trial.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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All appeals are non-jury. TBH I'm not sure where you're going with all this. Ideally this format should not be required but our history, especially with paramilitaries, has taught us that unfortunately it is. These types of cases come from a world where there is no value on life, where any life is completely disposable and where punishment is just an inconvenience. It's no great leap to suggest that a jury member would be a prime target and not only during a trial.
It should be no great leap for a country to be able to protect jurors. This all assumes that defendants are going to seek to influence a jury...that is prejudicial.

The SCC still requires that witnesses attend at court...including all sorts of public servants...and they manage to be protected
 

sic transit

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It should be no great leap for a country to be able to protect jurors. This all assumes that defendants are going to seek to influence a jury...that is prejudicial.

The SCC still requires that witnesses attend at court...including all sorts of public servants...and they manage to be protected
The SCC is not often used and only where there may be a perceived risk. There are paramilitary undertones to this one, which is where the SCC started out. That's not an issue in 99.9% of the cases that appear before the courts. How can one protect jurors anyway? If they are there in court you have a right to see them as a defendant. Witnesses can be hidden from view.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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The SCC is not often used and only where there may be a perceived risk. There are paramilitary undertones to this one, which is where the SCC started out. That's not an issue in 99.9% of the cases that appear before the courts. How can one protect jurors anyway? If they are there in court you have a right to see them as a defendant. Witnesses can be hidden from view.
Who says that they muat be visible?
 

sic transit

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Betson

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Man shot dead in Kildare last night , it is been linked to the Hutch Kinihan feud. The victim was an associate of the Hutchs.
 

Ardillaun

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The Kinahans must be bad for business at this stage. Anyone seen with that crew is going to have their affairs given a serious look. Such brazen attacks show why the SCC is the only place for these trials. In a small country like Ireland, jurors are just too vulnerable to retaliation by a powerful criminal gang. I’d like to see plea bargaining brought in as well.
 

blinding

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The Kinahans must be bad for business at this stage. Anyone seen with that crew is going to have their affairs given a serious look. Such brazen attacks show why the SCC is the only place for these trials. In a small country like Ireland, jurors are just too vulnerable to retaliation by a powerful criminal gang. I’d like to see plea bargaining brought in as well.
:thumbsup: The Kinahan Gang in particular are making a laughing stock of the forces of Law and order in this Country .

They need to be crushed legally by the forces of Law and Order . These forces must be given all the help they need .
 


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