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24/7 Alliance accuse govt,siptu and ictu of lying on Croke Pk 2


nonpartyboy

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Taken from the 24/7 alliance facebook page..........

"Copied from IFESA.

Right let just take a step back for a moment please and look at the time line.

On Monday the 18th of Feb in Tallaght 4,000 frontline workers stood side by side and said No more cuts.It was pointed out at this meeting that SIPTU was selling out the front line workers.This came from Gardai,Nurses,Prision officer & Paramedics.

The same night in Liberty hall SIPTU stood and is purported to have said "it had done a special deal for Fire Fighters" and in words to the effect that the 24/7 movement was elitist & sectarian.They informed their members a deal had been done.

In the followings days the anti was upped by the 24/7 group with the GRA & AGSI turning off the goodwill tap.Tit for tat between Government / SIPTU at the 24/7 Alliance.Divide and conquer springs to mind it was surprising ,to some that SIPTU & Government would be having a go at frontline workers in an almost Synchronised attack.Why was this?Was it because they were losing their grip on the workers?Was it because members were leaving in a stead flow and joining IFESA.

SIPTU in an effort to stem the flow kept reassuring members that a deal had been done and not to worry,even a whistle stop tour of DFB station telling Fire Fighters not to worry a deal had been done.

CP2 is released on Monday and the impact of the cuts hit home,24/7 come out and say its an unfair attack on front line workers.ICTU say it fair and spread evenly.

Thursday morning the aforementioned letter is circulated by an ICTU union to its members nothing stating its confidential,media get their hands on it.IFESA release it to it members 10 hours later.
What was the importances of releasing it yesterday it was released due to the fact that a 24/7 meeting was taking place.it was a bid by ICTU / Government to unsettle the Front Line Alliance and try and split them up with in fighting.Again Divide and conquer.

The next morning today ,SIPTU spin put on it to try and under mine IFESA that we nearly scuppered a deal.
How could we have scuppered a deal that SIPTU had purported to have done back on the 18th when it said it at its EGM,then followed it up in coming days weeks with reassurances that a deal had been done.
We now quote Patrica King from RTE news at one "King told RTÉ’s News at One that Garda bodies could have been treated similarly to prison officers and firefighters – who are reported to have secured sector-specific agreements parallel to the Croke Park proposals – if they had not withdrawn from the talks.
King said firefighters were an example of a group who had undergone massive internal restructuring to cut down on spending, and of whom it would be unfair to ask for more financial contributions.
“Even if you take the Gardaí, they had done substantial roster changes,” King said, contending that Gardai could have achieved a similar sectoral-specific deal if they had engaged in the talks."

Does this not infer that a deal was done prior to CP2 coming out hence the accusations that IFESA could have scuppered a deal are total and utterly unfounded by SIPTU own admissions.Or had SIPTU been leading their Fire Fighters down the garden path one more time????and if not for the pressure applied by the 24/7 alliance they would have rolled over???

The only people trying to divide us is ICTU they are determined not to allow a group such as the 24/7 Alliance come together and succeed and fight for their members.The Fire Fighter want to stand together with Nurses,Gardai,Prison Officers & Paramedics.The business that is ICTU do not want the workers coming together,as it would be bad for their income."


Then we have the gardai.......

"The GRA, AGSI, Assoc of Superintendents, Chief Superintendents Association were in a seperate room to the unions. They do not have a vote like the unions do as to the overall acceptance or rejection of the pay cuts deal... The rules of engagement applied to the Garda associations were :-

"There's €60million to be cut in the next 3 years. €18.2million has to be saved in 2013 (even though Garda associations pointed out Croke Park Runs into 2014). And €21m to b saved in 2014, and same in 2015...Garda Associations are told that the same amount €60m will be cut even if they don't agree to the cuts. The only options they are given is that the savings have to be taken off of a few of the following:-
Saturday allowance, Sunday premium, twilight hours 6pm to 8pm, night duty and possible variations as to what the new overtime rate will be....

It was like giving a man a baseball bat and a hurley and telling him to beat the crap out of himself , the weapon of doing it being his only choice ....

The associations enquired if the fact that savings of approx €20million would be made through 350 to 400 staff retiring in 2013 could be taken into account and were told NO. They enquired whether the fact that there was to be incentivised career breaks and redeployment of Gardai to social welfare dept and if 100 did this there would be €5m to €6m savings... Reductions in Garda manpower is extra work on Gardai but they were told that these wouldn't count towards savings.
The section as regards public service working extra hours was pointed out to the Garda associations and they were told that any money saved off of overtime due to Gardai working extra hours would not count towards the savings .... The associations asked if they could find savings from other areas of cutting out waste or duplication etc and were told that "All savings have to be made from cuts to the pay and allowances bill"

SO WHEN A UNION LEADER ---- AND NOW A TD ... Say that Garda associations should have entered negotiations as rosters and other previous change would have counted then they are misguided, deluded and trying to justify themselves....
THE issues I outlined above are FACTS ...
SO PLEASE STOP THE SPIN, the misleading statements.. the records show the above are FACTS"


..........so who is telling the truth ? The workers or the govt........who has form here for lying from day 1.


How can you deal with people who have the morals and integrity of sewer rats ??
 


Northsideman

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The SIPTU leadership and the Labour party are two cheeks of the same arse.
 

turdsl

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The most sickening part was leaders including Kenny and Shatter telling the Gardai to go
back into the talks,deceit and bluff once again,How can respect be maintained while this
is going on,
 

nonpartyboy

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According to 9'o clock news public servants who vote for the cp2 deal will get €100m back...

Is that the cost of a judas these days ????.......cheap i suppose when you consider what the political class cream off the state.
 

damus

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According to 9'o clock news public servants who vote for the cp2 deal will get €100m back...

Is that the cost of a judas these days ????.......cheap i suppose when you consider what the political class cream off the state.
Saying that they will get €100m back doesn't mean that they'll get €100m back - the devil will be in the T&C's!
 

wishywashy

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The SIPTU leadership and the Labour party are two cheeks of the same arse.


How could anyone put faith in the likes of Jack O Connor who says one thing,but means something else. Likewise David Begg who sold out the CWU in 1993 and told us lies,in an effort to bolster his own profile and consequently his salary. He succeeded in this because he fooled too many people. But he is being exposed now for his treachery. Nobody should ever believe a word from this traitors mouth again. Likewise Gilmour Rabbitte Quinn and the rest of the champagne socialists. At least we knew where we stood with Bertie Ahern.
 

Con Gallagher

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The day the frontline alliance came into prominence the game was up for public servants holding out against the latest round of pay cuts. A united front of all public sector workers should have stood behind Croke park one. No pay cuts beyond those agreed. The agreement runs to 2014. No talks required.
 

wishywashy

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The day the frontline alliance came into prominence the game was up for public servants holding out against the latest round of pay cuts. A united front of all public sector workers should have stood behind Croke park one. No pay cuts beyond those agreed. The agreement runs to 2014. No talks required.


There seems to be a disturbing lack of backbone. How can certain people look in the mirror or sleep easy at night? And Im not talking about the likes of Rory Quinn,Pat Rabbitte,Emmet Stagg,Jan O Sullivan who sold out long ago or who were compromised by the trappings of office. Shame on all of them.
 

nonpartyboy

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The day the frontline alliance came into prominence the game was up for public servants holding out against the latest round of pay cuts. A united front of all public sector workers should have stood behind Croke park one. No pay cuts beyond those agreed. The agreement runs to 2014. No talks required.

You clearly do not know what you are talking about, the inability to pay clause was never activated by the govt, ictu went into discussions on a follow on agreement to CP1 and have managed to come out with a document that rides a coach and horses through CP1, ends it early and cuts pay for many workers........are these negotiators or facilitators for govt ?????????? A sellout.......

The frontline alliance was reactivate when the negotiations had nearly finished.........and the sellout was clear to everybody.........FACTS dear boy FACTS.
 

wishywashy

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You clearly do not know what you are talking about, the inability to pay clause was never activated by the govt, ictu went into discussions on a follow on agreement to CP1 and have managed to come out with a document that rides a coach and horses through CP1, ends it early and cuts pay for many workers........are these negotiators or facilitators for govt ?????????? A sellout.......

The frontline alliance was reactivate when the negotiations had nearly finished.........and the sellout was clear to everybody.........FACTS dear boy FACTS.


I saw that guy from IMPACT on TV. It was clear from what he said that the union movement in this country is finished. Clearly,that guy doesnt believe for a moment what he himself says.His days of telling lies and fooling people are over. What will he feel like when he is on the dole,bearing in mind that because he has exposed himself as a spoofer he will never get a job again. The ************************.
 

Pat Gill

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Why are Irish people so easily fooled by divide and conquer tactics ?

The cheery fact is that they seem to have begun to wake up to these tactics, the Frontline Alliance is still holding together, even the Prison Officers are still on the same side they started out on.
 

Bleu Poppy

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How could anyone put faith in the likes of Jack O Connor who says one thing,but means something else. Likewise David Begg who sold out the CWU in 1993 and told us lies,in an effort to bolster his own profile and consequently his salary. He succeeded in this because he fooled too many people. But he is being exposed now for his treachery. Nobody should ever believe a word from this traitors mouth again. Likewise Gilmour Rabbitte Quinn and the rest of the champagne socialists. At least we knew where we stood with Bertie Ahern.
Where did we stand with Bertie?

Benchmarking- did anybody ever see rationale justifications for the increases is salaries and holiday leave and reductions in working hours? The answer is no.

Better Local Government- increases in middle and senior management posts- most of which went to people who hold no third-level qualifications. Just like Bertie.
 

Bleu Poppy

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The day the frontline alliance came into prominence the game was up for public servants holding out against the latest round of pay cuts. A united front of all public sector workers should have stood behind Croke park one. No pay cuts beyond those agreed. The agreement runs to 2014. No talks required.
On what basis for economic growth was CP1 based?

Have we economic growth? Precious little, unfortunately.

Are we borrowing billions each year to pay for public services, including monies to pay the salaries of those providing the services and the pensions of those who used to provide those services?

Trimming is still required, unfortunately. And the sooner the better, so that the unsustainable borrowing can be reduced as quickly as possible.
 

Northsideman

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The day the frontline alliance came into prominence the game was up for public servants holding out against the latest round of pay cuts. A united front of all public sector workers should have stood behind Croke park one. No pay cuts beyond those agreed. The agreement runs to 2014. No talks required.
And therein is the real truth of it, 2014 is right up against the next election and SIPTU et al are now giving their pay masters in Labour a (pardon me for using this phrase) DIG OUT.
 

spidermom

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The "big" unions and their highly paid union chiefs do NOT want any other union grouping forming and taking away members!...
have had no respect whatsoever for the unions for quite some time.Even the INMO had done little and have not adequately represented frontline nurses for quite some time.The "suit" nurses have been well looked after...(in my view)...the infamous benchmarking rewarded them far more than the joe soap nurse!.Following the "strike" in 1998, it was the tutors etc that gained from this.the 37.5 hour week was advantageous for these nurses but proved to be a curse for us. Doran has played this sexist card before...sigh!!....detest it massively!!
Let the government legislate for the pay cuts,they get paid to make the tough decisions.nurses pay union subs for their workers rights to be protected. I expected the cuts in sunday pay and the 39 hour week to be re-instated.Its the finer details that will have a bigger impact...but they can only be done with negotiation....Ye cannot legislate for negotiation...let them swivel!!....!!... :-(

By the BY...this is totally not like me...I am not a member of any union...and deplore cuts in patient care that have occurred. Understand completely the financial sh!te we are in. have also read the comments here about how lucky we are to have jobs,pensions(HA!!!) and security of employment...!!

But what is being proposed is just too much...and is simply unfair!!
 
Last edited:

nonpartyboy

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Where did we stand with Bertie?

Benchmarking- did anybody ever see rationale justifications for the increases is salaries and holiday leave and reductions in working hours? The answer is no.

Better Local Government- increases in middle and senior management posts- most of which went to people who hold no third-level qualifications. Just like Bertie.
You are another one who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about, benchmarking was a straight out pay increase or what i like to call a bone thrown to ordinary public servants, which has long since been rolled back........

.......while those in management took a hatchet and sledgehammer to the state piggybank.

The type of increases they got via the buckley report, you wouldn't see in a casino..........and who piggybacked on them, you guessed it td's and ministers.......
 

Bleu Poppy

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You are another one who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about, benchmarking was a straight out pay increase or what i like to call a bone thrown to ordinary public servants, which has long since been rolled back........

.......while those in management took a hatchet and sledgehammer to the state piggybank.

The type of increases they got via the buckley report, you wouldn't see in a casino..........and who piggybacked on them, you guessed it td's and ministers.......
Benchmarking went from the bottom all the way to the top- and well you know it. With those at the bottom getting the lowest increases and those at the top the highest.

BM2 exasperated that situation and emphasised differentials between professionally qualified personnel and those who hold no qualifications.

The pay reductions implemented by legislation crudely took 10% off all- more than wiping out the bench-marking increases for those lower down on pay-scales but not being anything as drastic for those further up the ladder.

CP2 recognises these injustices and will see those on €65,000 or less left without suffering further cuts.
 

nonpartyboy

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Benchmarking went from the bottom all the way to the top- and well you know it. With those at the bottom getting the lowest increases and those at the top the highest.

BM2 exasperated that situation and emphasised differentials between professionally qualified personnel and those who hold no qualifications.

The pay reductions implemented by legislation crudely took 10% off all- more than wiping out the bench-marking increases for those lower down on pay-scales but not being anything as drastic for those further up the ladder.

CP2 recognises these injustices and will see those on €65,000 or less left without suffering further cuts.
Your first 3 lines repeats exactly what i said..........

People on far less than €65k will be seeing further cuts of up to 8% via CP2........do you get it ?????????????????????
 

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