28k to be offered redundancy in HSE

CorkHurler

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Gross government expenditure this year will be €75bn (= 58% of 2009 GNP €131bn) while gross receipts will be €50bn (€33bn tax and €17bn PRSI and health levies which is conveniently described in government accounts as "appropriations in aid". It is obvious that the €75bn needs to be massively reduced to bring us in to line with what is sustainable. This is a very small step in that direction.
 


paulp

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I assume the 3 weeks + statuary is an opening gambit which will be raised to 4 or 5 weeks within a week or so? Any opinion
 

anewbeginning

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With on-going deflation in Public Sector worker wages, it just might encourage many to take a package and leave.

If pensions are also going to be cut, maybe some will leave before a certain cut off date.

We need more lower paid younger workers in the public sector and less overpaid lazy Fat Cats.
 

Macy

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I assume the 3 weeks + statuary is an opening gambit which will be raised to 4 or 5 weeks within a week or so? Any opinion
Hard to know really, and they won't admit it. I'd say a second round would take longer than that come on the table though. My biggest surprise was the lack of additional years being offered for the early retirement - it's basically the same scheme that was there before from what I can see.
 

Thac0man

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HSE proposes major redundancy scheme - RT News

Some good news today. This is the first sign of the government really getting into the monsterous public sector wage bill which is dragging us down. Anyone who works in the HSE can point to a huge amount of pointless jobs that were created during the boom years.

Overall we need to lose between 50k and 100k in the public service.
Is it though? Pensions that are comparable to salery and a parchute payment don't really amount to a saving in the time frame envisioned for the 'recovery plan' (such as it it). On top of that under Croke Park whatever (or little) is saved gets ploughed back into Public Sector pay.

There has already been a package offering early retirement, estimated to be worth 1million Euro by comparison to the Private sector, and that had precious few takers. Why should this be any different?
 

johndodger

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HSE proposes major redundancy scheme - RT News

Some good news today. This is the first sign of the government really getting into the monsterous public sector wage bill which is dragging us down. Anyone who works in the HSE can point to a huge amount of pointless jobs that were created during the boom years.

Overall we need to lose between 50k and 100k in the public service.
Who says the pointless jobs will go? More likely it's frontline staff that will go. Without key reform to identify those "pointless jobs" this will only further cripple the health service and hurt the old, sick and vunerable. Many of those will then be rehired as consultants (or the jobs outsourced to consultants) at higher cost. Another example of this Governments short term thinking and it's inability to plan ahead. But it appeals to the anti-PS FF/Media cadre and their supporters so that's all that really matters.

100k job losses in the public sector will lead to a further 50-100k job losses in the private sector and will cost the country a min. of €4bn p.a. and that is not including the loss of VAT revenue.


There is a very short time frame for employees to make a decision about this. A life changing one too, but necessary I think.

There should be a similar scheme for Civil Service, Local Authorities etc. Short sharp shock now, better than death from a thousand cuts.

CPA adhered to, this scheme is voluntary, so it should be extended to all PS in time. It is a good way to cut costs, and no more paycuts for the time being for those staying on.
How will it cut costs? How will it benefit the health service and the wider economy?
 
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paulp

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Who says the pointless jobs will go? More likely it's frontline staff that will go.
Up to 28,000 clerical, administrative and support staff in the HSE are to be offered an early retirement or redundancy package, in a scheme that would fund 5,000 staff leaving the HSE.
edit: not implying that clerical, admin and support are pointless, but that I don't think these roles would be considered frontline
 
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Machdaddy

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None of this voluntary, consensus crap. If people arent needed ANYWHERE in public sector, sack them with statutory minimum. Harney is admiting that theres huge numbers in public sector doing nothing costing taxpayers a fortune while the private sector workers are bearing almost all the brunt. Obscene.
Ah I see a graduate from the Hobbs school of economics.I acknowledge that the private sector has been hit hard but remember PS got the tax hikes as well as a pension levy deduction as well as a pay cut like most of private sector so to say private sector is bearing the brunt is a disingenuous, false and misleading statement.I agree that there needs to be a clear out of the waste and clutter and this announcement is useless unless they hit the pensions and force people to take up the offer but maybe a little education would do you no harm instead of spouting populist, vacuous bile that you read in the daily mail.
 

johndodger

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The anglo emloyees got 8 weeks per year with a maximum of 3 years pay.

The HSE staff age offered 5 weeks per year with a maximumof 2 years pay.

Why so much tot he Anglo staff.
Duh! Because of the FF/Banker/Developer cadre. FF always protect their wealthy friends


HSE staff qualify for a gratuity on retirement of 1.5 years salary so its not such a good deal for some one with 30 years service.

It will be interesting to see who will take it up. Ideal if you are emigrating.
In the case of front line staff like Nurses I cannot see many taking it up as they would have to emigrate to find work. Ideal if they are but not so easy for those with high mortgages and young families. The PS early retirement scheme had very few takers.

None of this voluntary, consensus crap. If people arent needed ANYWHERE in public sector, sack them with statutory minimum. Harney is admiting that theres huge numbers in public sector doing nothing costing taxpayers a fortune while the private sector workers are bearing almost all the brunt. Obscene.
So why does she and the rest of the Government refuse to identify these people and introduce meaningful reform? In order to identify these jobs you need to do root and branch evaluation of the entire CS and wider public service. Instead they cut across the board hurting all services critical and non-critical alike, ensuring that the old, the sick and the vunerable suffer most.

Gross government expenditure this year will be €75bn (= 58% of 2009 GNP €131bn) while gross receipts will be €50bn (€33bn tax and €17bn PRSI and health levies which is conveniently described in government accounts as "appropriations in aid". It is obvious that the €75bn needs to be massively reduced to bring us in to line with what is sustainable. This is a very small step in that direction.
How so?
 
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Machdaddy

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Is it though? Pensions that are comparable to salery and a parchute payment don't really amount to a saving in the time frame envisioned for the 'recovery plan' (such as it it). On top of that under Croke Park whatever (or little) is saved gets ploughed back into Public Sector pay.

There has already been a package offering early retirement, estimated to be worth 1million Euro by comparison to the Private sector, and that had precious few takers. Why should this be any different?
Money would go back to public service if efficiencies made and economy improved.No efficiencies because senior management know more efficiency means less managers.Go figure.Even at that the economy is so bad under no circumstances will the PS be getting any money from savings so your comment is misleading and baseless.
 

johndodger

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edit: not implying that clerical, admin and support are pointless, but that I don't think these roles would be considered frontline
Fair point, but some would. Certaiunly not all could be be considered pointless. I know of one example of what would be termed "support staff", a friend who is a diagnostic technician. His job is to calibrate and maintain diagnostic equipment such as EGC, Echo, Ultrasound etc. He has already seen reductions in staff in his department leading to greater waiting times for diagnostic proceedures. Some of these support staff are critical and their absence would in some cases delay or make operations impossible or less safe.
Ah I see a graduate from the Hobbs school of economics.I acknowledge that the private sector has been hit hard but remember PS got the tax hikes as well as a pension levy deduction as well as a pay cut like most of private sector so to say private sector is bearing the brunt is a disingenuous, false and misleading statement.I agree that there needs to be a clear out of the waste and clutter and this announcement is useless unless they hit the pensions and force people to take up the offer but maybe a little education would do you no harm instead of spouting populist, vacuous bile that you read in the daily mail.
+100
 

Keith-M

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The anglo emloyees got 8 weeks per year with a maximum of 3 years pay.

The HSE staff age offered 5 weeks per year with a maximumof 2 years pay.

Why so much tot he Anglo staff.

HSE staff qualify for a gratuity on retirement of 1.5 years salary so its not such a good deal for some one with 30 years service.

It will be interesting to see who will take it up. Ideal if you are emigrating.
When you add the extra 1.5 years salary to the 5 weeks per year (inc the salary cap) the HSE package is better. I assume there will be a limit of ten years service etc. as I can't see anyone gettiing 1.5 year salary after a few years in the job.
 

Machdaddy

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When you add the extra 1.5 years salary to the 5 weeks per year (inc the salary cap) the HSE package is better. I assume there will be a limit of ten years service etc. as I can't see anyone gettiing 1.5 year salary after a few years in the job.
No definitely not.Those who are there over 25 years would be on huge salaries no matter what position they are in.Therein lies the crux of the problem.Someone working in a post room licking envelopes at clerical officer level could be on up to €39000 a year with long service while a newly appointe civil servant who joined say three years ago is on about €25000 a year and may be working in social welfare or within the Garda and is in a much more testing position its pure madness. Anyone with 25 years service should be offered 3/4 terms however if they refuse their future pensions will be hit with tax and a reduction in gratuity.The new terms introduced for new civil servants and their pension packages are irrelevant because there will be no recruitment for years. As you say a Clerical Officer would be on about €34000 grand a year after 10 years service so a year and a half gratuity would be aout €50000 which would be taxed.You have 20 years of a mortgage left you aint goin nowhere. Unfortunately like the incentivised career break which was an utter failure this aint gonna do a lot and compulsory redundancies are on the way and when managers are looking at staff reuctions they certainly wont be considering their own overpaid job
 

OCicero

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When you add the extra 1.5 years salary to the 5 weeks per year (inc the salary cap) the HSE package is better.
You are combining the early retirement plan with the redundancy plan here. According to rte it's one or the other.
 

anewbeginning

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This is a public sector body and like all public sector bodies, we are to automatically assume it's infested with cronyism, political nepotism and everything else.

Friends of management will apply for package and get it. 6 months later they will be hired back as contractors on double pay.

The public sector is rotten to the core at the top and infested with idiots, corruption and cronyism.
 

Keith-M

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You are combining the early retirement plan with the redundancy plan here. According to rte it's one or the other.
OK, I'm depending on the web, I don't have radio at work. I'd need to see the full package (including any miimimum threshold) to judge properly.
 

Machdaddy

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This is a public sector body and like all public sector bodies, we are to automatically assume it's infested with cronyism, political nepotism and everything else.

Friends of management will apply for package and get it. 6 months later they will be hired back as contractors on double pay.

The public sector is rotten to the core at the top and infested with idiots, corruption and cronyism.
+100

Case in point being last year when the paycuts for the top boyos in the government departments got their pay cuts reversed after personal lobbying to ministers.Outrageous
 

elfatih

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I can hear people all over this country saying its great to be getting rid of 5000 clerical/admin in HSE. No doubt some of the admin staff wont be missed and it wont really make much difference to the service provided. But look at it another way, its possibly 5000 more people on the dole, so instead of these employee paying levies and tax they'll be getting the dole and all the generous benefits that go with it. Its likely the redundancy pots will be used to reduce their mortages so the money wont go back into the economy.
The majority of clerical positions left vacant will be filled with agency staff, in my local hospital all the staff who took the last redundancy package were replaced by agency so how much better off will we be?
 

invpat

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I can hear people all over this country saying its great to be getting rid of 5000 clerical/admin in HSE. No doubt some of the admin staff wont be missed and it wont really make much difference to the service provided. But look at it another way, its possibly 5000 more people on the dole, so instead of these employee paying levies and tax they'll be getting the dole and all the generous benefits that go with it. Its likely the redundancy pots will be used to reduce their mortages so the money wont go back into the economy.
The majority of clerical positions left vacant will be filled with agency staff, in my local hospital all the staff who took the last redundancy package were replaced by agency so how much better off will we be?
I'm sorry am I missing something here,the word I see is VOLUNTARY nobody ia getting fired and its my guess anybody younger than 55 will not be moving and they cant be made to either
 

anewbeginning

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The across the board pay increases above inflation, under partnership, regardless of productivity, was what ruined the public sector.

It's just such a disincentive to be productive. Why bother when you are going to get an increase anyways.

Would that seriously happen in the private sector, where unproductive people are routinely laid off for just not being good enough.

I hope we never ever return to a situation of cross the board pay increases in the public sector. You should only get a pay increase in the public sector if you are promoted.
 


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