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3 More Universities for Ireland?


seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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14,327
There's a story in tomorrow's IT which says the DIT and two other Institutes of Technology will be converted to Universities of Technology.

No link yet, so far as I can see, but there is an image of the front page on broadsheet.ie that shows the story.

Does Ireland really need 3 more universities? We have 8 currently (or 4, depending on how you count them) for a population of 4 million. One university per 500,000 people. Seems like enough for me.

Dublin will have 4 Universities just for one city.

Instead of funding 11 universities, surely it would make more sense to fund the ones we have better.
 


RobertW

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Feb 11, 2011
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It's populist vote grabbing by politicians. . . That's all.
 

Suttree

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There's a story in tomorrow's IT which says the DIT and two other Institutes of Technology will be converted to Universities of Technology.

No link yet, so far as I can see, but there is an image of the front page on broadsheet.ie that shows the story.

Does Ireland really need 3 more universities? We have 8 currently (or 4, depending on how you count them) for a population of 4 million. One university per 500,000 people. Seems like enough for me.

Dublin will have 4 Universities just for one city.

Instead of funding 11 universities, surely it would make more sense to fund the ones we have better.
WIT and CIT presumably? I'm a CIT alumnus, and it doesn't deserve the status of a university - it was always nice reading in the newsletter the president's calls for the institute to be upgraded when you were sitting in a prefab.
 

Zerubbabel

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What was wrong with Regional College, or Institute of Technology ?

Why not, when they are at it, just upgrade all national schools to university status and award all those leaving sixth class with a Ph.D ?
 

stringjack

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There's a story in tomorrow's IT which says the DIT and two other Institutes of Technology will be converted to Universities of Technology.

No link yet, so far as I can see, but there is an image of the front page on broadsheet.ie that shows the story.

Does Ireland really need 3 more universities? We have 8 currently (or 4, depending on how you count them) for a population of 4 million. One university per 500,000 people. Seems like enough for me.

Dublin will have 4 Universities just for one city.

Instead of funding 11 universities, surely it would make more sense to fund the ones we have better.
See also here.
 

Boy M5

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May 20, 2010
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21,729
The brits did it 20 years ago & it didn't work. They downgraded technical / vocational institutions / Polytechnics by making them "universities"
So instead of having institutions that would create jobs through educating technically savvy people who advance learning. They have institutions that "graduate" , crap and lazy geography teachers.
 

Alan Alda

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Jun 23, 2011
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Good move. Stationery supplies are apparently a growth area in the economy.
There's a method to the madness.
 

Mr Pseudonym

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A member called Mercurial posted tomorrow's press release in the article entitled "University rankings show that small countries' universities can rank among the best". I'll summarise briefly: three Technological Universities to be created from the merging of three sets of Institutes of Technology. Those sets are, as follows: Dublin IT, IT Tallaght, and IT Blanchardstown; Cork IT and IT Tralee; Waterford IT and Carlow IT. There will also be "Clusters" of third level institutions to "eliminate duplication of provision" and to create "critical mass...and centres of excellence".

Nothing different from what was outlined in Hunt Report.

Doesn't it somewhat undermine DIT's one campus vision - presumably operations will continue in Blanchardstown and Tallaght under the umbrella of the Technological University

This is an interesting time for Irish education: Junior Cert being redeveloped; an evaluation of the Leaving Cert with the potential of doing likewise; likely redesign of third level undergrad admissions and the concomitant standardisinging of first year courses; institution with largest undergrad population (DIT; 22000+) moving to new campus; third level Clusters and creation of Technological Universities.
 
Last edited:

Cato

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H/t to Mercurial (see SJ's link above):

Minister Quinn sanctions major reorganisation of higher education


The Minister for Education and Skills, Ruairí Quinn T.D., has today announced a major re-organisation of the country’s higher education sector that includes provision for the creation of new Technological Universities.

This announcement follows recommendations made by the Higher Education Authority (HEA) to Minister Quinn.The HEA 's report called for consolidation of the Institute of Technology (IT) sector; the creation of a small number of technological universities ; the formation of regional clusters between universities and stronger ITs ; implementation of recommendations to rationalise teacher education; as well as increased sustainability and capacity in the higher education system.

Minister Quinn said; "A new relationship between the state and the 39 publicly funded higher education institutes will be implemented. This will allow the system to respond in a more coherent way to national priorities set down by the Government and provide graduates with the skills and qualifications that are essential for Ireland’s social and economic well-being. A new performance framework will be put in place to increase the transparency and accountability of institutions for delivery of agreed performance outcomes. Integral to this will be a process of strategic dialogue between the HEA and each higher education institution".

The Minister continued: "Following discussion with Government colleagues this week, my response to the HEA report formally sets out the Government's national priorities and its key objectives for the higher education system. I will be asking the HEA to report to me on an annual basis on the collective performance of the higher education system against these national priorities and objectives and a set of high level system indicators that will be finalised in the coming weeks. A legislative framework will be brought forward to enable the implementation of these very important processes."

Minister Quinn said this new focus on system and institutional performance will bring the funding and governance of Irish higher education into line with best practice internationally. “It marks a new era for students and other stakeholders of the system".

The Minister is also instructing the HEA to begin to implement the report's recommendations that will result in the consolidation of three groups of institutes of technology to progress towards attaining TechnologicalUniversitystatus. The three are:


The Dublin Institute of Technology, the Instituteof TechnologyTallaght and the Instituteof Technology, Blanchardstown
The Cork Institute of Technology and the Instituteof Technology, Tralee
The Waterford Institute of Technology and Carlow Institute of Technology.

The next stage for each of the applications will be the preparation of a plan to meet the criteria for TechnologicalUniversitystatus that must be based on a legally binding memorandum of understanding between each consortium of institutions describing their consolidation into a new single institution.

The plans will be evaluated by an independent expert international panel that will decide if the applicant can meet the agreed criteria in the proposed timetable and can proceed to the final stage.

Minister Quinn added that: “It is clear some institutes are not seeking to amalgamate with others and become Technological Universities. However, all institutions must concentrate on the core mission of developing close links with the local and regional business community and giving the best possible quality of education to their students, both from home and abroad.“

In addition, the Minister is asking the HEA to establish regional clusters of institutions in three identified regions, Dublin/Leinster, the South/South East and West/Mid /North West. All seven universities and 14 ITs will be grouped as follows:


South/South East - UniversityCollegeCork, CorkIT, IT Tralee, WaterfordIT and IT Carlow;
West/Mid/North West - University of Limerick, Mary Immaculate College, Limerick IT, Galway-Mayo IT, IT Sligo, Letterkenny IT and NUI Galway (St Angela’s and Shannon College incorporated into NUI Galway);
Dublin/Leinster Pillar I – University College Dublin, Trinity College Dublin, National College of Art and Design, Marino Institute of Education, Dun Laoghaire Institute of Art, Design and Technology; < >
Dublin/Leinster Pillar II – Dublin Institute of Technology, IT Tallaght, IT Blanchardstown, Dublin City University (and incorporating linked colleges), National College of Ireland, Dundalk IT, NUI Maynooth, Athlone IT and Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
Heads of institutions in these clusters will now develop regional plans, eliminating unnecessary duplication of provision and establishing clear pathways of transfer and progression for students in the region. Emerging alliances between universities and institutes of technology will be strengthened and promoted - developing critical mass and centres of excellence in undergraduate, postgraduate and research provision.

The re-configuration of higher education follows on from the National Strategy for Higher Education to 2030 (the Hunt report) that set out a series of objectives for a reformed system. The re-configuration also incorporates the rationalisation of initial teacher education recommended in a report published last year by the HEA and the recommendations of the review of creative arts provision in the Dublinarea also published in 2012.

ENDS
 

Analyzer

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PR stunt by a meandering weak government, that is increasingly relying on PR stunts.

Here is a question - have we too many third level institutions.

Especially in Dublin. They could be consolidated.
 

seabhcan

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PR stunt by a meandering weak government, that is increasingly relying on PR stunts.

Here is a question - have we too many third level institutions.

Especially in Dublin. They could be consolidated.
I think we possibly do. But competition is good... so I'm torn on it.

Maybe the solution is to close UCD. It seems like a factory for producing unemployable arts graduates.
 

stringjack

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PR stunt by a meandering weak government, that is increasingly relying on PR stunts.

Here is a question - have we too many third level institutions.

Especially in Dublin. They could be consolidated.
...

In addition, the Minister is asking the HEA to establish regional clusters of institutions in three identified regions, Dublin/Leinster, the South/South East and West/Mid /North West. All seven universities and 14 ITs will be grouped as follows:

South/South East - UniversityCollegeCork, CorkIT, IT Tralee, WaterfordIT and IT Carlow;

West/Mid/North West - University of Limerick, Mary Immaculate College, Limerick IT, Galway-Mayo IT, IT Sligo, Letterkenny IT and NUI Galway (St Angela's and Shannon College incorporated into NUI Galway);

Dublin/Leinster Pillar I - University College Dublin, Trinity College Dublin, National College of Art and Design, Marino Institute of Education, Dun Laoghaire Institute of Art, Design and Technology;

Dublin/Leinster Pillar II - Dublin Institute of Technology, IT Tallaght, IT Blanchardstown, Dublin City University (and incorporating linked colleges), National College of Ireland, Dundalk IT, NUI Maynooth, Athlone IT and Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland

Heads of institutions in these clusters will now develop regional plans, eliminating unnecessary duplication of provision and establishing clear pathways of transfer and progression for students in the region. Emerging alliances between universities and institutes of technology will be strengthened and promoted - developing critical mass and centres of excellence in undergraduate, postgraduate and research provision.
 

The Field Marshal

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This is more of the Alice in Wonderland labourite educational approach. Words mean what we say they mean . The term "technological university" is a basic contradiction as any educational facility that restricts itself to "technical" subjects cannot offer courses in the humanities or the arts and therefore cannot offer a "universal" education.
 

4horsemen

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This is more of the Alice in Wonderland labourite educational approach. Words mean what we say they mean . The term "technological university" is a basic contradiction as any educational facility that restricts itself to "technical" subjects cannot offer courses in the humanities or the arts and therefore cannot offer a "universal" education.
True; but in fact the so called 'tecnological universities' only have a minority of their students in 'technological' subjects!
 

Analyzer

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I think we possibly do. But competition is good... so I'm torn on it.

Maybe the solution is to close UCD. It seems like a factory for producing unemployable arts graduates.
The UCD Arts Faculty is far too large compared to the market demand for BA graduates. In fact this is a feature of the entire third lvel sector. Too many students are studying courses, for which there is no demand. They end up having to do conversion courses thereafter. In many ways these are course that equate to an extension of second level education.

This wastes the time of the young people involved, and it also wastes the taxpayers money.

Based on what I have seen come from Irish Third Level, I think a large percentage of the sudent output would be better off doing personal development courses, than degrees for which there is no work, and which often make people even less employable.
 

owedtojoy

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There's a story in tomorrow's IT which says the DIT and two other Institutes of Technology will be converted to Universities of Technology.

No link yet, so far as I can see, but there is an image of the front page on broadsheet.ie that shows the story.

Does Ireland really need 3 more universities? We have 8 currently (or 4, depending on how you count them) for a population of 4 million. One university per 500,000 people. Seems like enough for me.

Dublin will have 4 Universities just for one city.

Instead of funding 11 universities, surely it would make more sense to fund the ones we have better.
Boston has at least a half a dozen universities, some of them the best in the world - Harvard, MIT, Boston U, Tufts U, Northeastern U, U of Massachusetts Boston .. maybe a few more I can't think of.

Some of these are twice as big as any Irish university. Someone told me once that the Harvard Science Dept is the same size as the Science Depts all the Irish Universities combined. We need to rationalize, but probably won;t.

In theory, all the universities should be able to support themselves with endowments, fees and research grants. But also probably not.
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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There's a story in tomorrow's IT which says the DIT and two other Institutes of Technology will be converted to Universities of Technology.

No link yet, so far as I can see, but there is an image of the front page on broadsheet.ie that shows the story.

Does Ireland really need 3 more universities? We have 8 currently (or 4, depending on how you count them) for a population of 4 million. One university per 500,000 people. Seems like enough for me.

Dublin will have 4 Universities just for one city.

Instead of funding 11 universities, surely it would make more sense to fund the ones we have better.
Sounds like a cynical rebranding exercise to me in order to paper over the cracks...

Instead of sorting out falling standards and a funding crisis they're going to blow a load of money on rebranding... FFS :roll:

Our universities and third level institutions are increasingly resented when they're pitching for students abroad... because it is increasingly known that Irish universities and third level institutions have a funding problem and that they're plummeting down the global rankings as a result...

What's the answer?

The re-introduction of third level fees so universities can raise the money they need while those who attend them pay their way...

The 'free' third level education bullsh!t which Labour have clung onto since Niamh Breathnach introduced it has been a huge failure and is only damaging the entire system now...

In addition and in the wake of the Prime Time creche revelations a couple of nights ago... it mightn't be a bad idea for an Irish Government to finally prioritise pre-school children and ensure these initial years are regulated and funded properly...

Because by all accounts the first few years of life are a lot more important in a person's development than third level years...

In answer to the OP... No... we don't need any more universities...

What we need is a vast improvement in those we already have...
 

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