8 years later how do we view the intervention of the troika?

Disillusioned democrat

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This isn't just a shameless bump of an 8 year old thread, but I'm genuinely curious to learn how - 8 years later, people view the intervention of the Troika in Ireland.

It's almost hard now to recall the national paranoia associated with the threat of the Troika, but, as the thread below demonstrates, a few people had begun to think about the upside.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/142114-dose-imfs-could-good-ireland.html
 


flavirostris

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Largely forgotton about it seems, judging by the performance of Fianna Fail in the polls.
 

SamsonS

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This isn't just a shameless bump of an 8 year old thread, but I'm genuinely curious to learn how - 8 years later, people view the intervention of the Troika in Ireland.

It's almost hard now to recall the national paranoia associated with the threat of the Troika, but, as the thread below demonstrates, a few people had begun to think about the upside.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/142114-dose-imfs-could-good-ireland.html
I think your question is loaded.

It was and is a stain on our country that we ended up in an IMF bailout.
That no country would lend us money as rates under 14% cause they did not believe that we could or would pay it back, our country was forced to go to the only organisation that would lend us money at rates we had any chance of repaying.
That is and remains shameful.



Are we in a better place now? Of course we are, under any economic metric you wish to use.

Where your question is loaded is if you dislike the gov, then its because of the IMF, or would have happened anyway or would have been a "better" recovery if someone else was in charge If you like the gov then its feck all to do with the IMF, and down to the policies and initiatives undertaken by the govt.
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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Embarrassing, shameful but necessary.

At least they weren't selling assets to their Maltese mates at cut throat, sorry, price discounts.
 

PBP voter

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Cheap loans to bailout the German banks.

Well done EU.
 

shiel

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The basic facts are as follows.

Government expenditure and bank lending tripled in the decade or so prior to 2009.

Result in 2010 government spent 103bn and took in 53 bn a deficit of 50 bn.

That was three times worse than Greece, which went broke in the same year, relative to the size of the economy.

That meant we had to get a bailout from fellow EU members and IMF.

At a cost of austerity we have made a recovery. Greece has had worse austerity but has not recovered yet.
 

Franzoni

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This isn't just a shameless bump of an 8 year old thread, but I'm genuinely curious to learn how - 8 years later, people view the intervention of the Troika in Ireland.

It's almost hard now to recall the national paranoia associated with the threat of the Troika, but, as the thread below demonstrates, a few people had begun to think about the upside.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/142114-dose-imfs-could-good-ireland.html
As soon as they said they were going to clean up the costs around the legal profession ( and by extension hopefully they would of gotten sideways into other sectors over rip off insurance prices and claims ) the politicos couldn't get rid of them quick enough....
 

shiel

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• The bailout totalled €85bn
The €85bn was split as follows:
• €50bn to run the country, pay civil service etc.
• €35bn for the banks, with €17.5bn to come from Irish reserves
 

JCR

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Cheap loans to bailout the German banks.

Well done EU.
One of the biggest myths of recent times. German banks had very little exposure. Most of the money was owed in the City of London and the US. That is why Geithner stood in to demand the repayments to all bondholders and the UK government suddenly decided to loan Ireland billions.

The crap about Ireland bailing out the German and French banks is the paddy equivalent of little Englander Brexiteers writing stories about EU imposing straight banana regulations and so on.

As regards the Troika, I'd be expecting similar again. Ireland has not learned its lesson as far as I'm concerned.
 

clearmurk

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One of the biggest myths of recent times. German banks had very little exposure. Most of the money was owed in the City of London and the US. That is why Geithner stood in to demand the repayments to all bondholders and the UK government suddenly decided to loan Ireland billions.

The crap about Ireland bailing out the German and French banks is the paddy equivalent of little Englander Brexiteers writing stories about EU imposing straight banana regulations and so on.

As regards the Troika, I'd be expecting similar again. Ireland has not learned its lesson as far as I'm concerned.
Geithner's intervention was all about protecting AIG, and the credit default swaps they had sold against Irish credit.

He showed us who our friends are.
 

JamieD

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One of the biggest myths of recent times. German banks had very little exposure. Most of the money was owed in the City of London and the US. That is why Geithner stood in to demand the repayments to all bondholders and the UK government suddenly decided to loan Ireland billions.

The crap about Ireland bailing out the German and French banks is the paddy equivalent of little Englander Brexiteers writing stories about EU imposing straight banana regulations and so on.

As regards the Troika, I'd be expecting similar again. Ireland has not learned its lesson as far as I'm concerned.
Over the years, plenty of excuses have been made for the bailout and for the stain of the troika on Ireland. However, in late 2010, there was absolutely no doubts as to why Ireland was pushed so hard into a bailout. There was no mystery as to why Sarkozy and Merkel couldn't keep the word "Ireland" away from their lips, and why EU officials kept talking about how it was ready to assist Ireland, despite repeated rebutting by the Irish government.

The problem was financial institutions holding Irish sovereign and banking debt. Just look for any article from that time period that analyses the situation and it's impossible not to see it. Took me all of 30 seconds to find one:

Here’s the Real Story Behind the Bailout of Ireland

Why did Eurozone officials push so hard for a bailout of Ireland?

ireland_flag_cracked_200.jpg
CNBC.com
On the face of it, it was a very strange dynamic. Irish government officials had been insisting that they were well-funded through at least the first quarter of next year. Without any current need to roll debt, Ireland could afford to be indifferent as its spreads blew out. The yields on Irish debt may have blown out, but it wasn’t costing Ireland anything.

The pressure for a bailout of Ireland did not come from Ireland itself—it came from Eurozone officials. If anything, Irish Finance Minister Brian Lehnihan’s announcement over the weekend that Ireland would seek a bailout was a concession to its European Union friends.

So why would the Eurocrats demand a bailout of Ireland when Ireland insisted it didn’t need one?

The first reason is that much of Ireland’s debt—both its sovereign debt and the debt of its banks—is held by many of Europe’s largest financial institutions. The continued downward pressure on the market value of Ireland’s debt was causing balance sheet issues for these banks. Many of Europe’s banks had written credit default swaps on Irish debt, which was draining cash. Finally, the banks were finding it increasingly expensive to borrow against Irish debt—that is, other banks would not lend money in exchange for Irish debt as collateral, except at steep discounts—creating the potential for a credit crunch.

It’s likely that the European Central Bank has large exposures to Irish debt. The ECB has been quietly buying European sovereign debt since May—although it won’t say exactly what debt it is buying. The purpose of the purchases is to stabilize the debt market and provide liquidity to the economies of Europe. The stabilization effort, at least, appears to have failed. Further purchases of sovereign debt in a renewed stabilization effort threaten to become inflationary—essentially the ECB monetizing sovereign debt in Europe. An official bailout may be an attempt to ward off monetization and inflation.

Which means that this is not so much a bailout of Ireland—it’s a bailout of Ireland’s counterparties. That is to say, it’s a bit like Europe’s version of AIG: a backdoor bailout of invisible financial players who failed to manage their exposure to a shaky borrower.

This is going to become an explosive political issue in Ireland—one that may threaten the Irish government’s ability to keep the austerity promises it is likely to make in exchange for the bailout. After all, if the real purpose of the bailout is not so much to rescue Ireland but to rescue the Eurozone financial institutions holding Irish debt, there may be good reason for the Irish people to reject the terms.

Already there are calls for a new election from within Ireland’s ruling party. In Dublin, someone hung a sign over the weekend saying “Traitors” over the official “Department of the Taoiseach (Prime Minister)” sign.

This thing is far from over.

https://www.cnbc.com/id/40315265
As for the spreads, there's no doubt that Ireland's ability to borrow became unsustainable, and there's also no doubt that through repeated public statements and commentary on the Irish economy (seemingly without consulting Dublin), that's exactly what Eurozone officials wanted, leaving us with no avenue but to seek assistance. Ireland became the Eurozone's example to the world of how it would handle problematic members.
 

Clanrickard

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An opportunity missed.
 

DeBanksofDeLee

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This isn't just a shameless bump of an 8 year old thread, but I'm genuinely curious to learn how - 8 years later, people view the intervention of the Troika in Ireland.

It's almost hard now to recall the national paranoia associated with the threat of the Troika, but, as the thread below demonstrates, a few people had begun to think about the upside.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/142114-dose-imfs-could-good-ireland.html
High Treason by cowen lenihan and ffail selling our country down the river and then rubber stamped by kenny blueshirts and labrador party. It really gets me angry thinking about those smug prićks ************************inģ on this country.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I'm interested in the aspect which insists on viewing the Troika and bailout as something historic.

I saw Fine Gael at that caper of pretending in newspaper articles that the Troika had 'gone' as if everything was paid back and we were all up to date. It suited their agenda of portraying themselves as the 'rescuers' when in fact we are still very much in the hands of the Troika.

Just because the IMF team are not sitting in an office in Dublin does not mean that they are not pulling the strings.

Because Fine Gael and whatever the next government will be constructed of will also carry on the pretence of financial sovereignty there will effectively be an impression created of financial sovereignty which is untrue.
 


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