800 quangos cost taxpayer €13 billion - Indo

FutureTaoiseach

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In another example of how the crisis in the public-finances is caused by Socialism - not rightwing economics - the government now presides over 800 quangos which collectively cost the taxpayer €13 billion per annum.
Sunday Independent said:
...Two years after Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan announced a cull of quangos only 16 or so of the mere 41 targeted have been closed.
But while one door was closing another was opening up -- with public sector reform a breeding ground for new quangos.
We've had the Decentralisation Implementation Group, five Performance Verification Groups linked to public service pay increases under social partnership agreements, three implementation groups so far for the Croke Park Agreement and a Public Service Body due to be announced shortly which the Taoiseach says will "bring greater focus and energy to the task of public service transformation".
This proliferation of groups and bodies is actually far more likely to bring increased costs, duplication of work, confusion and delay to the process of reform. Red tape caused by EU requirements, social partnership agreements and the increased involvement of citizens is leading to spiralling costs now estimated to have reached €13bn a year.
The OECD report pointed out: "Agencies have been established on an ad hoc basis with no clear vision or policy goals."
This lack of transparency gives credence to the view that appointments to State bodies are made on the basis of political affiliation rather than merit. Former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said in 2006 about board appointees: "I might have appointed somebody -- but I appointed them because they were friends, not because of anything they had given me."
Ministerial appointments have come in for stinging criticism, with Fine Gael TD for Louth Fergus O'Dowd accusing Transport Minister Noel Dempsey of "stuffing the boards of many of these agencies up and down the country with Fianna Fail henchmen, which is what they are, [bringing] the whole process into disrepute."
And they are still creating new quangos even now:
The recently established National Transport Authority comes into an area already groaning under the weight of bodies and authorities. In addition to the Minister and Department of Transport, we have the National Roads Authority; the Road Safety Authority; the Railway Safety Commission; the Railway Procurement Agency; the various Port Authorities; the Harbour Commissioners; the Commissioners of Irish Lights; the Irish Aviation Authority; the Commission of Aviation Regulation; CIE; the Dublin Carriage Office; and the Commission for Taxi Regulation.
And, as if that wasn't enough, a National Advisory Council is also due to be set up, with a chairperson and 23 ordinary members.
It is now believed there are 800 state agencies.
Over the past 20 years, new bodies were set up such as the Office of Tobacco Control (cost €1.6m, due to be absorbed into the Health and Safety Authority); An Coimisineir Teanga (€1m); the National Employment Rights Authority (NERA -- €8m); the Food Safety Authority (€18m); the Food Safety Promotion Board (€5.6m); the Private Residential Tenancies Board (€1m); the Limerick Northside Regeneration Agency (€2.8m); the Limerick Southside Regeneration Agency (2.8m); Science Foundation Ireland (€175m); and a couple of hundred more, each with their budgets and boards.
The overall cost to the State of these agencies is close to €13bn. We're told by the Government that an "adjustment" of €15bn is going to have to be made over the next four years to deal with the budget deficit. Following through on its own proposals to reduce the number of quangos would surely be a place to start.
Despite numerous reports setting out the risks associated with the ad hoc development of agencies without a clear plan or lines of responsibility, they continue to be set up, complete with boards and budgets. And now we seem to have moved into the territory of setting up new agencies to review agencies....
Gormless is getting in on the action too:
The Minister for the Environment John Gormley has set up an Environmental Protection Agency Review Group with the sole purpose of assessing the performance of the Environmental Protection Agency when this should surely be the responsibility of the agency's parent department..
What this underlines is that:

- Those on this forum who claim we have a "rightwing government" are wrong. We in fact (at least since 2004) are living under a Socialist-government that has relentlessly pushed the growth of Government.

- The urgent need for a new rightwing-party that will defend and implement the Small Government that our public-finances, fiscal-sovereignty, businesses and taxpayer's (and ultimately public-services strangled by bureaucracy and slow decision-making) desperately need. They should defend the principles that the PDs jettisoned since introducing Socialist measures like 'Risk-Equalisation' which forced the VHI's competitors to subsidise them - thereby distorting the market.

- The need for an immediate moratorium on quangos - including 'review-groups', task-forces - or whatever they want to call them.

- All public-appointments to state-boards to be publicly-advertised and confirmed/blocked by a more powerful Seanad, which in turn would be directly elected. This reduces the incentive to proliferate quangos as it would be harder to stuff them with party hacks if the lack of expertise of nominees were subjected to greater public-scrutiny. To that end, one-third of the Seanad should be elected every two years. A two-thirds majority should be required for confirmation.
 


Holy Cow

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Quangos are used for FF patronage. A large party of their 18% support depends on giving cash to certain people. The quangos will never be cut by FF.
 

Xipe Totec

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ft posting threads is a blatant example of political correctness gone mad.

oh sure, cochrane keeps him around to show how 'tolerant' he is of the mentally handicapped.

however he drags down the collective iq into a black hole and its embarrising for all concerned; can we put an end to this cruel charade?
 

making waves

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FT - quangos do not equate to socialism.

Quangos equate to political corruption and jobs for the boys - part and parcel of capitalism. It couldn't exist without it.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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ft posting threads is a blatant example of political correctness gone mad.

oh sure, cochrane keeps him around to show how 'tolerant' he is of the mentally handicapped.

however he drags down the collective iq into a black hole and its embarrising for all concerned; can we put an end to this cruel charade?
Are you really a member of Irish Liberty Forum? Sound like a Socialist to me. Oh and thanks for the "handicapped"-jibe btw. As an Asperger's sufferer I really appreciate it. :roll:
 

Kevin Doyle

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I
- Those on this forum who claim we have a "rightwing government" are wrong. We in fact (at least since 2004) are living under a Socialist-government that has relentlessly pushed the growth of Government.
Sweet Jesus do you even know what socialist means? By that definition Bush was a raging commie.

Setting up quangos so FF could get more 'jobs for the boys' has absolutely nothing to do with socialism, its simply FF being FF.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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In another example of how the crisis in the public-finances is caused by Socialism - not rightwing economics - the government now presides over 800 quangos which collectively cost the taxpayer €13 billion per annum.And they are still creating new quangos even now:Gormless is getting in on the action too:What this underlines is that:

- Those on this forum who claim we have a "rightwing government" are wrong. We in fact (at least since 2004) are living under a Socialist-government that has relentlessly pushed the growth of Government.

- The urgent need for a new rightwing-party that will defend and implement the Small Government that our public-finances, fiscal-sovereignty, businesses and taxpayer's (and ultimately public-services strangled by bureaucracy and slow decision-making) desperately need. They should defend the principles that the PDs jettisoned since introducing Socialist measures like 'Risk-Equalisation' which forced the VHI's competitors to subsidise them - thereby distorting the market.

- The need for an immediate moratorium on quangos - including 'review-groups', task-forces - or whatever they want to call them.

- All public-appointments to state-boards to be publicly-advertised and confirmed/blocked by a more powerful Seanad, which in turn would be directly elected. This reduces the incentive to proliferate quangos as it would be harder to stuff them with party hacks if the lack of expertise of nominees were subjected to greater public-scrutiny. To that end, one-third of the Seanad should be elected every two years. A two-thirds majority should be required for confirmation.
+1

I have always been opposed to quangos and never viewed them as anything else other than jobs for the boys or a means to keep the PC overload brigade happy. The layers of bureaucracy they create alone piles on the costs as it often runs far beyond their own budget as other departments have the cost of reporting to them on various issues as well. I have always believed in a flat structure in any organisation the more unnecessary layers you add on the greater your costs.


We definitely have no economically right party in Ireland and a new PD type party is badly needed. Indeed I would say a large section of the Irish electorate is disenfranchised right now because of this.

Interesting suggestion on the use of the Seaned, especially the one third being elected every two years; this should ensure that it rarely fell under one party control. I would suggest that there should be some room in it for independent candidates from panels etc who are not party members to ensure impartiality.
 

mido

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when were the pds anything other than the provsional wing of TACA -their "policies" did more to foster the collapse of the economy with the aiding and abetting of cowen and mc creevy than anyone else-if this was Romania I would nominate the pds as our Caucescu's and deal with them in the same manner
 

making waves

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TPP - have you forgotten that the PD's were a key component part of the crowd that got us into this mess.
 

Kevin Doyle

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+1
We definitely have no economically right party in Ireland and a new PD type party is badly needed. Indeed I would say a large section of the Irish electorate is disenfranchised right now because of this.
The PDs where decimated by the Irish electorate and yet you believe the electorate are crying out for another party of the same hue?
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Sweet Jesus do you even know what socialist means? By that definition Bush was a raging commie.

Setting up quangos so FF could get more 'jobs for the boys' has absolutely nothing to do with socialism, its simply FF being FF.
The definition of a socialist state is a state where 50% of the economy is dependent on government. Ireland is rapidly heading in that direction.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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TPP - have you forgotten that the PD's were a key component part of the crowd that got us into this mess.
The thing about the PDs is that they were tempted to to the Socialist "Dark Side" of quangocracy, Big Government, tax-and-spend, 'Risk Equalisation" after 2002 when they were no longer required by FF to govern with a Dail-majority. They abandoned their founding-principles including abolition of employer's-PRSI, abolition of Seanad etc. I am arguing for a real centre-right party that will abide by the principles the PDs betrayed in their final few years. I am also going further than the PDs in that I would break down the barriers-to-entry in the private-sector economy such as the legal-profession, pub-industry, medical-profession etc. The Bar Council and Law Society would lose their monopoly on qualifications for the legal-profession, for example. The PDs never supported this in govt.
 

Kevin Doyle

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The definition of a socialist state is a state where 50% of the economy is dependent on government. Ireland is rapidly heading in that direction.
Who came up with that definition?
 

Catalpa

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ft posting threads is a blatant example of political correctness gone mad.

oh sure, cochrane keeps him around to show how 'tolerant' he is of the mentally handicapped.

however he drags down the collective iq into a black hole and its embarrising for all concerned; can we put an end to this cruel charade?
Xippy

Can you translate that into English please?;)

As for FTs analysis I don't agree that Socialism is the cause of this rather crony patronism by FF

Mind you all Governments do this but it was allowed to get completely out of hand in the years of the Tiger

Serious pruning is needed here and I would expect a lot of these Quangos will either be abolished or merged & with new haircuts the order of the day.

Here's hoping anyway...
 
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Kevin Doyle

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The thing about the PDs is that they were tempted to to the Socialist "Dark Side" of quangocracy, Big Government, tax-and-spend, 'Risk Equalisation" after 2002 when they were no longer required by FF to govern with a Dail-majority. They abandoned their founding-principles including abolition of employer's-PRSI, abolition of Seanad etc. I am arguing for a real centre-right party that will abide by the principles the PDs betrayed in their final few years.
Even before they betrayed their economic principles they never received anything other than a marginal proportion of the vote, certainly nothing in the region to claim that the Irish electorate are desperate for another party with their economic beliefs to rise from the ashes.
 
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Tea Party Patriot

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The PDs where decimated by the Irish electorate and yet you believe the electorate are crying out for another party of the same hue?
Yes I do. I believe that most of our economically ring wing voters stuck with FF in the mistaken belife that they would be able to manage the countries finances.

We are in a situation now where you have right wings in both FF and FG, but both of them have socialist tails. Its time that people got away from civil war politics in Ireland, broad spectrum centrist parties never manage to deliver as they appeal to be all things to all men.

I honestly believe if a number of right minded TD's had the courage to leave them both behind right now they could do substantially well in any election.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Even before they betrayed their economic principles they never received anything other than a marginal proportion of the vote, certainly nothing in the region to claim that the Irish electorate are desperate for another party with their econimc beliefs to rise from the ashes.
A marginal vote is enough in our system to help determine govt policy in our system and is just as entitled to political-representation as the majority. Such is political-life in a PR-STV system. Labour represented a marginal-proportion of the electorate (5.4% in 1987) yet won 12 seats that year and have served in govt longer than FG. The problem is that since 2002 the PDs were surplus to requirements for FF. A principled centre-right party would have refused to enter govt without getting their programme largely implemented, which it was certainly not since 2002. FF have been in the driving-seat since then, and it's Socialist programme of quangocracy, the Benchmarking ATM and Partnership - together with the Eurocracy, must primarily bear the blame for the current predicament in which our economy finds itself.
 

Kevin Doyle

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Yes I do. I believe that most of our economically ring wing voters stuck with FF in the mistaken belife that they would be able to manage the countries finances.

We are in a situation now where you have right wings in both FF and FG, but both of them have socialist tails. Its time that people got away from civil war politics in Ireland, broad spectrum centrist parties never manage to deliver as they appeal to be all things to all men.

I honestly believe if a number of right minded TD's had the courage to leave them both behind right now they could do substantially well in any election.
Fair enough, I believe different. The PDs did exactly what you are suggesting and never made any real impact in terms of electoral preference.

So we'll agree to disagree.
 

Kevin Doyle

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A marginal vote is enough in our system to help determine govt policy in our system and is just as entitled to political-representation as the majority. Such is political-life in a PR-STV system. Labour represented a marginal-proportion of the electorate (5.4% in 1987) yet won 12 seats that year and have served in govt longer than FG. The problem is that since 2002 the PDs were surplus to requirements for FF. A principled centre-right party would have refused to enter govt without getting their programme largely implemented, which it was certainly not since 2002. FF have been in the driving-seat since then, and it's Socialist programme of quangocracy, the Benchmarking ATM and Partnership - together with the Eurocracy, must primarily bear the blame for the current predicament in which our economy finds itself.
Thats all well and good, but it doesnt belie that fact that they never managed to garner enough voter preference to suggest a large swathe of Irish people are eagerly awaiting their return. You are also rewritting history here, the PDs did get a lot of their agenda into Government and certainly punched above their weight in tems of mandate.

I have no problem with a new right wing party forming and contesting elections, I just dont believe they'll have any impact, and you can blame the PDs for that.

And again, quangocracy does not equate to socialism no matter how many times you say it does.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Fair enough, I believe different. The PDs did exactly what you are suggesting and never made any real impact in terms of electoral preference.

So we'll agree to disagree.
I think the PD's at their foundation were defined as much by the O'Malley / Haughey split as they were by their policies. There founder had a very much like him or hate him personality and this did not aid them, also there were many who viewed them as O'Malley's way of getting back at Haughey over the leadership battle.

A party based on similar principles but without the baggage of personal acromony over leadership of another party would perform much better.

Many of the positive policies that came into the economy such as high tax cuts both direct and indirect were largely PD and not FF policy. On the other hand the FF policies that got implemented are the ones the economy is suffering from today, and we will get more of the same from the current alternative.
 


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