A British spy, the Red Flag dossier, and Denis O'Brien - Irish Times report.

[cyberianpan]

Ah stop. Hollingsworth's only attempt in the direction of journalism has been a book about David Shayler and MI5. There are a rake of lads around who were let go at the end of the cold war and ended up starting consultancies which are little more than detective agencies where they offer 'contacts' and mysterious sounding skills to companies and individuals under the umbrella 'risk management'.

The chances of MI5 using a guy with his background and visibility are vanishingly small. They have a consultancy on Brooke Street in London chock full of MI6 retirees who spend their days monitoring activists on behalf of corporations. Why would they need to muck about with a bin-searcher like Benjamin Pell and a fellow like Hollingsworth.

I'm sure he'd love to be connected with MI5 but in fairness seeing as he has been all over the print media for bin-searching around the Al Fayed case he'd be pretty much useless to them. The fact that he was even using his own name is a bit of a giveaway.

Where did I say that his affiliation was to Mi5, or indeed state the nature of the agency?

Why are you commenting in such detail on a thread,when you plainly haven't read the source material it is predicated upon?

Also, I've made quite clear that it's not Hollingsworth per se is the concern

cyp

 

[cyberianpan]

Also...to aid people's imagination somewhat

Active Reconnaissance: after passive reconnaissance (that is reconnaissance expected to be undetected) , more active reconnaissance is sometimes performed ...literally the equivalent of throwing a few rocks over the wall. Sometimes the aim is to glean further intell, other times the aim is to create false impressions of when/where you will attack. Of particular interest is whereby you use an outrageous foray, to provoke an internal response...but you already have some asset on the inside, that lets you eavesdrop the whole, or part of that internal debate

There are obviously multiple other inflections of the above technique, Hollingsworth comes across as a bumbler (which he may be), but aspects of the non/response have me somewhat concerned...his affiliation, and previous affiliations have me even more concerned

Then, looking at the USB stick, and quite a lot more...there's much higher competence than Hollingsworth's bumbling displayed

Also...other, previously unconnected parties may have seen the non/response to Hollingsworth ... and realised that the barn door was open

Irish political figures and connected parties (journalists, bag men, etc) have very poor counter intelligence and cyber capacity ... and for example, the various email systems of various government bodies...are still poorly secured.

There really is little by way of defense against an unorthodox insider/guided attack ...and that attack could yield goods like these:

A senior politician has an affair, and promotes the person involved

A senior politician is a poorly performing alcoholic

A senior politician tells racist and sexist jokes, that get covered up

A senior politician's child gets a plum job that the ought not to have gotten

A senior politician's friend gets a plum state job

All of the above happen...one political editor flies into a near violent rage when challenged as to why they aren't reported

Politician's can't have embarrassing secrets...else they will get compromised

cyp

cYp

 

[Ardillaun]

Very likely. It isn't uncommon for insurance companies to hire such 'agencies' to catch someone out who is apparently crippled from a back injury at work to demonstrate that the person is happy to help load up a van at a supermarket and that kind of thing.

In fairness if you were going to pull a stunt like this you'd probably avoid Hollinsgworth given his history is available via Google.

That's not the same thing. That happens all the time and there is nothing wrong with it if they work within the rules.

Are there other examples of journalists using their position to obtain information by false pretences to give to another party to sue somebody? Hollingsworth did not pretend to be a journalist - he IS a journalist. He pretended to be working in one particular job while doing another. I understand that countries get into this type of thing but I wasn't aware that journalists were willing to do this for hire in Ireland. Who would ever speak to a journalist if he might be feeding the info to some criminal gang, for example? There's a lot of credibility at stake.

 

[Ardillaun]

Ah stop. Hollingsworth's only attempt in the direction of journalism has been a book about David Shayler and MI5.

Is the same guy?

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/mark-hollingsworth

 

[cyberianpan]

Is the same guy?

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/mark-hollingsworth

Much better work on your part than Lumpy's

Problem is,if I point out anything...the Moditariat will attack me

I have very strong notions on how Hollingsworth operates, the people he typically affiliates with...and his role in the world

That said...it's the post Hollingsworth part of the story that Murtagh tells...that bothers the most...it would be worthwhile doing a careful cross comparison to whatever [he who shall not be named] let be reported from his Red Flag court action

cyP

 

[Ardillaun]

There's enough eating on this carcass to keep us all happy. I prefer to rant about the journalism angle and leave the big money questions to others.

 

[cyberianpan]

There's enough eating on this carcass to keep us all happy. I prefer to rant about the journalism angle and leave the big money questions to others.

It's quite significant, doing out a map of Hollingsworth's subject matter interests,and associates over time...is rewarding

Also Murtagh notes him as having some form of affiliation with a private intelligence company. Those people,associates, and past clients are interesting

And ,one should have no reason to assume that O'Brien is the only person engaged in such sophisticated fishing, nor that the fishers exposed thusfar are his only fishers

Also, one ought to recall that Ireland is but one of his spheres of interest,and the countries in the Carribean/Latin America he operates in, have even weaker rule of law and civil society

Lastly,I expect one of Murtagh's editorial colleagues in particular,is in the EndaBunker shrieking and howling with rage -and seeing if Murtagh can be muzzled

cyp

 

[Analyzer]

The Sh1te Rimes has been sitting around doing nothing about the power of DOB for over two decades.

The real work has been fone by Red Flag & Hollingsworth.

 

[Lumpy Talbot]

Well if there are security agencies involved anywhere in this affair and it isn't just a number of agencies in a bungled attempt to stitch up Catherine Murphy et al I can't say I'm hugely impressed by their efficiency.

It's hardly Strauss-Kahn and a maid and a hotel in Paris or wherever is it?

My main annoyance with it all is as others have said around why there only now appears to be some awakening to the notion that some silly bugger with too much money and an sizeable ego is trying to misuse the Irish courts to suppress what he obviously sees as civil dissent against him.

The only interesting bit is the attempt to mess with the memory stick and its removal against court instructions from where it was supposed to be securely held. Even there the whole thing is so clumsy I'd suspect a technical agency rather than any security agency.

Mind you I do recall a raid on the offices of the Revenue back some years ago when certain computers in a Revenue office were targeted. Now that I would believe was an intelligence agency attempt at certain records- hideously clumsy and unaware of network computing but that would just lead me to suspect an agency not a million miles away from the Gardai as they could just about be the only security agency in western Europe who still think in terms of the 'file going missing, yer honour'.

And another raid on an Anglo Irish Bank official's home in which an alleged memory stick went missing in a disguised burglary with nothing else taken.

A few little incidents down the years which suggests security agency involvement but even there not very sophisticated or well disguised.

 

[Emily Davison]

Tend to agree with Emily, a well written rehash of info previously known and in the public domain. If there's an actual point, I'm not seeing it.

It was an extremely boring piece too. Presumably because the lawyers went thru it with a fine tooth comb. But until Lumpy's post there at post 47 *, that's an angle I missed. That Redacted did this to see who hates him. I think he has a team of people reading the newspapers and internet morning noon and night such is his thin skin. You'd think an important wealthy businessman would have better things to be doing than legally threating every person who says anything about him ever.

*.Essentially this chap was hired by PERSONS UNKNOWN/REDACTED to try to lure critics of REDACTED into saying something he could sue them for

 

[EUrJokingMeRight]

If O'Brien and members of the oireachtas have nothing to hide....

 

[Sister Mercedes]

The Sh1te Rimes has been sitting around doing nothing about the power of DOB for over two decades.

The real work has been fone by Red Flag & Hollingsworth.

It's difficult in a country where the courts have made defamation suits such a plaintiffs playground. O'Briens buddy D Desmond is suing the Irish Times for mentioning him in its reporting of the Panama Papers.

It's Desmond's 30th defamation lawsuit in the past 25 years.

 

[Jack Walsh]

It's difficult in a country where the courts have made defamation suits such a plaintiffs playground. O'Briens buddy D Desmond is suing the Irish Times for mentioning him in its reporting of the Panama Papers.

It's Desmond's 30th defamation lawsuit in the past 25 years.

Another boyo that hasn't got anything like the amount of scrutiny a lot of his activities and connections have deserved over the years.

Look at the very wealthiest Americans
Innovators, Pioneers, inventors etc
Founders of companies such as Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook ,Oracle, Walmart etc etc
Look at ours
O, Brien, Desmond, Goodman, JP Mc Manus and a host of property gamblers

Just fixers, arrangers, deal makers, speculators, gamblers



Do they add anything to Ireland proportional to what the above Americans add to their country?

 

[bonkers]

Another boyo that hasn't got anything like the amount of scrutiny a lot of his activities and connections have deserved over the years.

Look at the very wealthiest Americans
Innovators, Pioneers, inventors etc
Founders of companies such as Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook ,Oracle, Walmart etc etc
Look at ours
O, Brien, Desmond, Goodman, JP Mc Manus and a host of property gamblers

Just fixers, arrangers, deal makers, speculators, gamblers



Do they add anything to Ireland proportional to what the above Americans add to their country?

As the sister said people are terrified of going after the owner of Glasgow Celtic. When he croaks it a lot of very juicy stuff will come out, too late of course. I hope I'm around for it.

 

[im axeled]

what is happening as regards the pen drive been taken abroad and interfeered with, when it was entrusted to some to keep in safe keeping

 

[Ardillaun]

Another boyo that hasn't got anything like the amount of scrutiny a lot of his activities and connections have deserved over the years.

Look at the very wealthiest Americans
Innovators, Pioneers, inventors etc
Founders of companies such as Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook ,Oracle, Walmart etc etc
Look at ours
O, Brien, Desmond, Goodman, JP Mc Manus and a host of property gamblers

Just fixers, arrangers, deal makers, speculators, gamblers

Do they add anything to Ireland proportional to what the above Americans add to their country?

It IS depressing but the UK megawealthy, e.g. Green, the Livingstones, Ashley, Grosvenor, are not that inspiring a lot either and below the Gang of Four we have some useful people, some of whom have genuinely gone abroad to make their mark, e.g. the Collisons, MOL, and quite a few in the UK and the US.

Our wealthiest people seem to be constantly trying to hide something.

 

[Ardillaun]

As the sister said people are terrified of going after the owner of Glasgow Celtic. When he croaks it a lot of very juicy stuff will come out, too late of course. I hope I'm around for it.

Chelski syndrome, buying goodwill.

 

[Ardillaun]

You might think being President of a university is a pretty nifty number but one is occasionally called upon to do some nasty work:

“UCD is proud to honour Dermot Desmond, the businessman, the patriot, the sportsman, the man of vision and bravery, the man who shaped and surfed the tide of modern Irish history as few others have before or since,” said Dr Hugh Brady, President of University College Dublin.

UCD News - Leading Irish businessman, Dermot Desmond honoured by UCD

 

[cyberianpan]

High quality information is available, a puzzle to be solved, dots to be joined

But the screaming mobs of p.ie only want comic book simplicity - and scorn all else - and are indeed thus complicit in Ireland's sorry state of affairs

cYp

 

[WayOutWest]

Nothing in Murtagh's article brings anything new to people who have been following these events which is not surprising given Murtagh's own limitations in journalistic skills.
If someone comes to Ireland and poses as a journalist to gain information for whatever purpose surely that's not a major crime. Remember when a British policeman worked undercover at Corrib? Did this cause concern to the government of this independent country?
As for Dail privilege, this privilege is only used by a small number of tds as the two main parties will not raise issues that concerning one individual in particular. Wonder why?
DOB is correct, many people in this country are asking questions about him, very awkward questions. His political connections and his business interest are of great interest, rightly so as we all pay the cost.