A British spy, the Red Flag dossier, and Denis O'Brien - Irish Times report.

im axeled

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Another boyo that hasn't got anything like the amount of scrutiny a lot of his activities and connections have deserved over the years.

Look at the very wealthiest Americans
Innovators, Pioneers, inventors etc
Founders of companies such as Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook ,Oracle, Walmart etc etc
Look at ours
O, Brien, Desmond, Goodman, JP Mc Manus and a host of property gamblers

Just fixers, arrangers, deal makers, speculators, gamblers



Do they add anything to Ireland proportional to what the above Americans add to their country?
may i take mcmanus's side here, he funds the cancer treatment center at limericks uni hospital, the mater private has the contract, he funds the two limerick dialisis units, he funds the buisness center at ul, he mainly funds the hospice in limerick, at the moment they are adding on a 5m. wing, it will be interesting to see the politicos line up at the opening party to take the credit, he funds many students from his alma mater sexton street to attend ul, also many who cannot afford third level education but for him, there are too many other to mention
 


cyberianpan

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Also, to my knowledge,JP McManus and Dermot Morgan are of good character, it is not at all fair to bring them up on a Denis O'Brien thread

cyp
 

Ardillaun

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Also, to my knowledge,JP McManus and Dermot Morgan are of good character, it is not at all fair to bring them up on a Denis O'Brien thread

cyp
Dermot Morgan certainly was. OK, I'll stick to the topic.
 
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Ardillaun

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may i take mcmanus's side here, he funds the cancer treatment center at limericks uni hospital, the mater private has the contract, he funds the two limerick dialisis units, he funds the buisness center at ul, he mainly funds the hospice in limerick, at the moment they are adding on a 5m. wing, it will be interesting to see the politicos line up at the opening party to take the credit, he funds many students from his alma mater sexton street to attend ul, also many who cannot afford third level education but for him, there are too many other to mention
That's another day's work.
 

Boy M5

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may i take mcmanus's side here, he funds the cancer treatment center at limericks uni hospital, the mater private has the contract, he funds the two limerick dialisis units, he funds the buisness center at ul, he mainly funds the hospice in limerick, at the moment they are adding on a 5m. wing, it will be interesting to see the politicos line up at the opening party to take the credit, he funds many students from his alma mater sexton street to attend ul, also many who cannot afford third level education but for him, there are too many other to mention
Does he pay his taxes?
Where does he live?
Does he live in Geneva or Kilmallock?

Rant over I know who I'd rather spend time with out of him & O'Brien.
 

Emily Davison

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may i take mcmanus's side here, he funds the cancer treatment center at limericks uni hospital, the mater private has the contract, he funds the two limerick dialisis units, he funds the buisness center at ul, he mainly funds the hospice in limerick, at the moment they are adding on a 5m. wing, it will be interesting to see the politicos line up at the opening party to take the credit, he funds many students from his alma mater sexton street to attend ul, also many who cannot afford third level education but for him, there are too many other to mention
I'll second this about McManus. From people in that area I hear he gives exceedingly genoursly. Especially to young lads from his old school. I've never heard a bad word about him, nor heard he made money other than being a very clever man. No dodgy stuff ever. Not all wealthy people are corrupt.
 

im axeled

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Does he pay his taxes?
Where does he live?
Does he live in Geneva or Kilmallock?

Rant over I know who I'd rather spend time with out of him & O'Brien.
i assume he is based in geneva, put it this way, if he was paying taxes not much of it would trickle down to the cancer patients the folks with kidny problems, the underprivilaged who otherwise could not afford collage, as it is uni hospital limerick has one of the worst records in the state, how many are alive because of his local generosity
 

Jack Walsh

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I would take Mc Manus a hundred times over O'Brien but although he is undoubtedly generous (and does it in a genuinely modest fashion as opposed to O'B) he is a mysterious individual, a tax exile and no one really has a clue how he made his fortune.
He has also mixed with some very ropey individuals, chief among them Joe Lewis.
My core point is he undoubtedly fits into the speculator/gambler profile that is the hall mark of the Irish mega wealthy as opposed to being a wealth generator through innovation or ingenuity

Let's head back to the big kahuna O'B
 

McTell

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No
...
My core point is he undoubtedly fits into the speculator/gambler profile that is the hall mark of the Irish mega wealthy as opposed to being a wealth generator through innovation or ingenuity

Let's head back to the big kahuna O'B

You have to speculate or push a boat out whatever you are doing. Supposing DO'B had taken his family money and spent it on Esat in the 1990s, and got it wrong, he could have gone back into the leasing world and worked for the man. Humbling but not so terrible.

You also have to aim your money where all the other money is going, or about to go. Even keeping an eye on what politicos are interested in helps, which is not corrupt but improves your chances.

It's all about making that "sure bet", so that you are not really gambling / speculating at all. It just looks that way to everyone else who missed out.
 

Ardillaun

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You have to speculate or push a boat out whatever you are doing. Supposing DO'B had taken his family money and spent it on Esat in the 1990s, and got it wrong, he could have gone back into the leasing world and worked for the man. Humbling but not so terrible.

You also have to aim your money where all the other money is going, or about to go. Even keeping an eye on what politicos are interested in helps, which is not corrupt but improves your chances.

It's all about making that "sure bet", so that you are not really gambling / speculating at all. It just looks that way to everyone else who missed out.
The larger point is that our mega-rich have generally not founded innovative companies that export products across the world. Too often there is a government connection to much of their wealth. Telecom is a classic example of this and by no means just in Ireland.
 

Se0samh

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The larger point is that our mega-rich have generally not founded innovative companies that export products across the world. Too often there is a government connection to much of their wealth. Telecom is a classic example of this and by no means just in Ireland.

:confused:
 

Ardillaun

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Another big article in the IT. The big man's story about the stick sounds a bit light on the old details there and it would be nice to see him expanding on it under oath. Who else handled the package before it got to him? Any note inside? Is he in the habit of handing over such items to his legal team sight unseen?

And then the real story starts with the most strange travels of this evidence. You can see why Dobby's little Dinnymen would want to get their hands on something from Red Flag they could actually present in court with a straight face.
 
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cyberianpan

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It begins..a bit over 30 years back

Garret the Good has a justified fear of Haughey...FG were a muddle.."Just Society" mixed in with the more traditional elements...and the more "green" Fine Gaelers such as Peter Barry...were a dying breed

Garret...authorized any means necessary to take down Haughey...keep him out of power...that order...never really got countermanded



Fast forward... Denis was learning darkness at the feet of the then master of it in Ireland, Tony O'Reilly ...

Fine Gael had crippling debt...and...well it was they who went to Denis...not vice versa...and it is a pure fiction that only Lowry was involved

FG ...as ever...lacked the hard nosed competence...and made a mess of the affair...in a manner that left Denis feeling crossed (and you need to be sure of what you are doing, if you cross a man who learned from Tony O'Reilly)

Denis...diversified...and when he brought PJ Mara on board...Mara didn't just manage FF contacts...FG fixers were brought onboard as well...and indeed there were a small number of Labour folk too

Denis had an aggressive strategy...in countries where the rule of law was worse than in Ireland...the jumpy nature of his expansion...meant much ...too much was debt funded

Denis got more involved with current/new Irish ventures in order to improve his gearing...then...Denis would have it...he got stung by wasps again

Now sure...the personal animus between him and his mentor Tony O'Reilly was extreme...and...such animus with a mentor...sends out very clear signals...and at least some of that motivated his pursuit of Karl Brophy/Red Flag...however...I don't think Denis was in fact the first mover there again

I still don't like Denis...but...he is competent...and can use a good team as well ... I am not at all sure why people he has stung so often...are trying to play him again...they're really, really not very good at it (or anything else for that matter)

I don't mind them destroying themselves (in fact I urge it)...but if they take good stuff with them...such as what remains of Ireland's trust in Fine Gael...then not merely should the scoundrels be hounded....but all their lackeys too

The sundry lackeys, men in cashmere suits and so on...need to tell The Wally... "To Hell or to Mayo". Wally probably doesn't even know what his wasps do...but Wallys' lackeys do ...and they need to ...encourage Wally's wasps never to be seen in Dublin again...

Else a very, very small, and very, very embarrassed rump end of FG, will have to merge into FF after the next election

cyp
 

cyberianpan

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It begins..a bit over 30 years back

Garret the Good has a justified fear of Haughey...FG were a muddle.."Just Society" mixed in with the more traditional elements...and the more "green" Fine Gaelers such as Peter Barry...were a dying breed

Garret...authorized any means necessary to take down Haughey...keep him out of power...that order...never really got countermanded



Fast forward... Denis was learning darkness at the feet of the then master of it in Ireland, Tony O'Reilly ...

Fine Gael had crippling debt...and...well it was they who went to Denis...not vice versa...and it is a pure fiction that only Lowry was involved

FG ...as ever...lacked the hard nosed competence...and made a mess of the affair...in a manner that left Denis feeling crossed (and you need to be sure of what you are doing, if you cross a man who learned from Tony O'Reilly)

Denis...diversified...and when he brought PJ Mara on board...Mara didn't just manage FF contacts...FG fixers were brought onboard as well...and indeed there were a small number of Labour folk too

Denis had an aggressive strategy...in countries where the rule of law was worse than in Ireland...the jumpy nature of his expansion...meant much ...too much was debt funded

Denis got more involved with current/new Irish ventures in order to improve his gearing...then...Denis would have it...he got stung by wasps again

Now sure...the personal animus between him and his mentor Tony O'Reilly was extreme...and...such animus with a mentor...sends out very clear signals...and at least some of that motivated his pursuit of Karl Brophy/Red Flag...however...I don't think Denis was in fact the first mover there again

I still don't like Denis...but...he is competent...and can use a good team as well ... I am not at all sure why people he has stung so often...are trying to play him again...they're really, really not very good at it (or anything else for that matter)

I don't mind them destroying themselves (in fact I urge it)...but if they take good stuff with them...such as what remains of Ireland's trust in Fine Gael...then not merely should the scoundrels be hounded....but all their lackeys too

The sundry lackeys, men in cashmere suits and so on...need to tell The Wally... "To Hell or to Mayo". Wally probably doesn't even know what his wasps do...but Wallys' lackeys do ...and they need to ...encourage Wally's wasps never to be seen in Dublin again...

Else a very, very small, and very, very embarrassed rump end of FG, will have to merge into FF after the next election

cyp
unsubtle *bump*

and the rub is...when Wally goes to hell...he'll be left in the back row ;-)

cyp
 


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