A dose of the IMFs could be good for Ireland

Disillusioned democrat

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We've been sold the IMF as the "bogey man" for the past two years - pretty much justifying every crap decision the government have made recently. IMHO it's the "elites" that have most to fear from the IMF - they would find the salaries, pensions and perks of the government hilarious, just before decimating them. They wouldn't give the quangos a second thought as they shut them down and the semi-states would be gutted of €500k a year salaries. The banks with a dependency on the state would be cleaned out and the HSE would be put down immediately.

So, like a receiver, the IMF would look to make Ireland competetive again, nurture the FDI and indigenous industries, would secure the middle class' position (as the major tax payers) and make sure they stayed productive and would make social welfare less attractive.

Maybe NOT the worst thing that could happen.
 


eoghanacht

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Yeah, i've been thinking and posting pretty much the same opinion on other threads. We need them to save us from ourselves.

Though i doubt they'll be the panecea we are hoping for.
 
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JCR

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We've been sold the IMF as the "bogey man" for the past two years - pretty much justifying every crap decision the government have made recently. IMHO it's the "elites" that have most to fear from the IMF - they would find the salaries, pensions and perks of the government hilarious, just before decimating them. They wouldn't give the quangos a second thought as they shut them down and the semi-states would be gutted of €500k a year salaries. The banks with a dependency on the state would be cleaned out and the HSE would be put down immediately.

So, like a receiver, the IMF would look to make Ireland competetive again, nurture the FDI and indigenous industries, would secure the middle class' position (as the major tax payers) and make sure they stayed productive and would make social welfare less attractive.

Maybe NOT the worst thing that could happen.
The IMF wouldn't nurture anything - they would for example close down half the hospitals, thats it close them down. The IMF destroys countries it touches, it work on behalf of all those money is owed to, it it there to get the money back any way it can. Still, right now its worst will be blocked by the EU with the emergency fund so hopefully we won't witness the social savagery of the IMF which would make the likes of Mary Harney seem sane and compassionate.
 

goosebump

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I have no problem with the IMF coming in.

They will do pretty drastic things, but they aren't going to be any more drastic than the things we should be doing ourselves.

And because no one from the IMF will have have to stand for election in Ireland, they can actually do the stuff that needs to be done, rather than the stuff that they can get away with.

The only downside for me is that its an embarrassment. It effectively demonstrates that less than 100 years after independence, we are incapable of self-government.
 

roc_

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Yep. It's a very sad state of affairs that we have gone so far that the force of Irish public opinion has become totally impotent to make any of these reforms - to take the cream from the fat cats.

We'll suffer no doubt, but I can't help thinking that having an end put to all of the outrageous salaries, pensions and perks mentioned by DD above, will be worth letting these b@stards in.

Not to mention Eamon Ryan's madcap schemes, the FF inner sanctum attempts to prop up the property market and keep the sector in big salaries, the other salaries and perks swallowed up by the quango class... and all the rest of the politically motivated spending that has crippled us.

It has to be done. And it has to be done by the IMF. Unfortunately, there is no chance of real revolution at the present time in this country - we are too cowed, too self-interested, too divided, too incapable of pooling our efforts to conjure up the power we need.
 

goosebump

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The IMF wouldn't nurture anything - they would for example close down half the hospitals, thats it close them down.
We need to close half our hospitals.

We have 27 acute hospitals for a (young) population of 4m people. Outside of Dublin, we have 21 acute hospitals for a population of 2.5m people.

Irish people are going to have to get used to the idea of travelling for more than 30 minutes to recieve acute health care.
 

goosebump

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Unfortunately, there is no chance of real revolution at the present time in this country - we are too cowed, too self-interested, too divided, too incapable of pooling our efforts to conjure up the power we need.
Or maybe its just that not everybody agrees with you.
 

roc_

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dresden8

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Irish people are going to have to get used to the idea of travelling for more than 30 minutes to recieve acute health care.
Well, it's an hour and a half by public transport from Swords to the Mater. As far as I can see that's more than 30 minutes.

You talk ************************.
 

goosebump

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I never asked anyone to.
No, you just claimed that people were too 'self-interested' to join your revolution.

You've consulted with everyone in the country individually then, have you?
 

chriskavo

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Bring the IMF in and kiss your sovereignty away forever. They would destroy this country, they would go after every man woman and child looking for higher taxes, decreases of up tp 25% in social welfare, health cuts. You name it and we would be beholden to them for the rest of our lives. Bad Bad Move.
 

roc_

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No, you just claimed that people were too 'self-interested' to join your revolution.

You've consulted with everyone in the country individually then, have you?
I said that "we have gone so far that the force of Irish public opinion has become totally impotent to make any of these reforms - to take the cream from the fat cats..."

The kind of reform or revolution we need, of whatever form, to reverse this situation, is just not going to happen off our own bat - for the reasons I pointed out - that are merely observations.

So, let the IMF do it.

I couldn't give a $hit myself at this stage, to be honest. As long as there's some force in the world that IS actually capable of constraining our kleptocracy from fleecing us, let them have a go.

I'm too old for the kind of revolution you obviously think I'm talking about.
 

roc_

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Bring the IMF in and kiss your sovereignty away forever. They would destroy this country, they would go after every man woman and child looking for higher taxes, decreases of up tp 25% in social welfare, health cuts. You name it and we would be beholden to them for the rest of our lives. Bad Bad Move.
That's what the kleptocracy would have you believe. But I'm not so sure about that - I would say they'll go after the kleptocracy first. Here - The Quiet Coup - Magazine - The Atlantic

"No, the real concern of the fund’s senior staff, and the biggest obstacle to recovery, is almost invariably the politics of countries in crisis.

Typically, these countries are in a desperate economic situation for one simple reason—the powerful elites within them overreached in good times and took too many risks. Emerging-market governments and their private-sector allies commonly form a tight-knit—and, most of the time, genteel—oligarchy, running the country rather like a profit-seeking company in which they are the controlling shareholders…" >>>
And,
"So the IMF staff looks into the eyes of the minister of finance and decides whether the government is serious yet. The fund will give even a country like Russia a loan eventually, but first it wants to make sure Prime Minister Putin is ready, willing, and able to be tough on some of his friends. If he is not ready to throw former pals to the wolves, the fund can wait. And when he is ready, the fund is happy to make helpful suggestions—particularly with regard to wresting control of the banking system from the hands of the most incompetent and avaricious “entrepreneurs.” >>>
And,
"From long years of experience, the IMF staff knows its program will succeed—stabilizing the economy and enabling growth—only if at least some of the powerful oligarchs who did so much to create the underlying problems take a hit." >>>
 

kerdasi amaq

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I don't understand this fetish some people seem to have for the IMF. An organisation that should be declared illegal under the Offences Against The State Act.​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoIJPwfsbqg]YouTube - (Jamaica) IMF decimating one country after another[/ame]
24,966

We can solve our problems by printing money​
.
 

gatsbygirl20

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We've been sold the IMF as the "bogey man" for the past two years - pretty much justifying every crap decision the government have made recently. IMHO it's the "elites" that have most to fear from the IMF - they would find the salaries, pensions and perks of the government hilarious, just before decimating them. They wouldn't give the quangos a second thought as they shut them down and the semi-states would be gutted of €500k a year salaries. The banks with a dependency on the state would be cleaned out and the HSE would be put down immediately.

So, like a receiver, the IMF would look to make Ireland competetive again, nurture the FDI and indigenous industries, would secure the middle class' position (as the major tax payers) and make sure they stayed productive and would make social welfare less attractive.

Maybe NOT the worst thing that could happen.
The IMF would "nurture" nothing, just collect debt as painlessly as possible. The IMF are part of the "elite". They certainly have no interest in killing off "elites" per se.

All that "gutting" and "shutting down" and "cleaning out" you seem to be salivating over would involve real lives, real jobs (many low-paid) real human beings, real hardship, to add to all the rest of the hardship.

The IMF don't do hilarity. Maybe you find the prospect of people losing their jobs or having their salaries decimated "hilarious". I take it that you are convinced that the IMF axe will not fall on you, and that you find the prospect of others suffering, but not you, somewhat cheering.

Have a care. The very "middle class" and "taxpayers" you feel would benefit from IMF intervention, would of course be its victims. And so would you.
 

Cato

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The IMF would "nurture" nothing, just collect debt as painlessly as possible. The IMF are part of the "elite". They certainly have no interest in killing off "elites" per se.

All that "gutting" and "shutting down" and "cleaning out" you seem to be salivating over would involve real lives, real jobs (many low-paid) real human beings, real hardship, to add to all the rest of the hardship.

The IMF don't do hilarity. Maybe you find the prospect of people losing their jobs or having their salaries decimated "hilarious". I take it that you are convinced that the IMF axe will not fall on you, and that you find the prospect of others suffering, but not you, somewhat cheering.

Have a care. The very "middle class" and "taxpayers" you feel would benefit from IMF intervention, would of course be its victims. And so would you.


An essential read for anyone deluded enough to think that the arrival of the IMF would be a good thing.
 

roc_

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I don't understand this fetish some people seem to have for the IMF. An organisation that should be declared illegal under the Offences Against The State Act.​

YouTube - (Jamaica) IMF decimating one country after another
24,966

We can solve our problems by printing money​
.
Good video. I'll take it on board. It's hard to know who to believe. Btw I agree with your statement that "We can solve our problems by printing money". Although that is dependent on first resolving the underlying social and political problems that are sapping our ability to be properly productive. Good paper here on the money printing thing. http://www.missouriwestern.edu/orgs/polanyi/tad web archive/tad25-3/tad25-3-fnl-pg26-31-pdf.pdf
 

motorheed

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I don't understand this fetish some people seem to have for the IMF. An organisation that should be declared illegal under the Offences Against The State Act.

YouTube - (Jamaica) IMF decimating one country after another
24,966
Quite, they'd remind one somewhat of a cartoon character shooting themself in the face to swat the fly that has landed on their nose.

We can solve our problems by printing money​
.
Exactly, then they'd be no need to borrow at all - simples.
 

irish_bob

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We need to close half our hospitals.

We have 27 acute hospitals for a (young) population of 4m people. Outside of Dublin, we have 21 acute hospitals for a population of 2.5m people.

Irish people are going to have to get used to the idea of travelling for more than 30 minutes to recieve acute health care.
we have too many primary schools aswell

hundreds of rural schools need to be closed and merged , in the parish where i live thier are three schools , the largest and most central one in the village itself has 90 pupils , the one closes to me ( two hundred metres away ) has 24 pupils ( and a special needs teacher for one child i might add ) and the smalles school in the parish has 21 pupils , baschically , two of theese schools have an average of three pupils per class , were all three schools to be merged into the largest central school , the furthest any student would have to travel to school is around three miles with a few kids from neighbouring parishes having to travel perhaps four

the country is broke , we can no longer afford schools , universitys , top class medical facilities and international sports stadiums in every one horse town
 


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