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A future for Jews in the Netherlands?


Chi019

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Apparently not according to their Chief Rabbi, echoing previous comments by former EU Commissioner Fritz Bolkenstein.

Or consider what has just happened. A Turkish-Dutch researcher publicized systematic anti-Semitism among other Muslims in the Netherlands, including a dramatic video that showed teenage boys calling for genocide and praising Hitler.

What happened? The researcher, Mehmet Sahin, had to go into hiding after being accused by others of being a Jew and a Zionist....

Last year, the chief rabbi of the Netherlands spoke in a published interview in which he spoke extensively about his love for the country, the good treatment of Jews there, and other such points. Asked at the end, however, whether there was any future for Jews in the country he said, “No,” and advised the community to move to Israel...

Here’s the bottom line: Given the fact that this hatred is endemic among Dutch Muslims; and given the fact that their proportion and influence in the country is increasing; and given the fact that there are literally no countervailing forces, is this viewpoint going to increase or decrease? Obviously, the former.
Similarly, in Denmark and Sweden it seems that the middle eastern conflict and tensions are being carried into those societies.

At a recent government-sponsored “multicultural festival” in Nørrebro, intended to promote cultural “diversity,” a Jewish group was barred from displaying the Israeli flag. TaskForce Inclusion, one of the Orwellian-named organizers of the event, claimed that the measure was taken as a “safety precaution” (a precaution that applied, it seems, only to Jewish groups and a tacit admission that the mere sight of a Star of David would drive certain other attendees into spasms of violence). One government official later said that, initially, the Jewish group was to be completely excluded for fear of offending Muslim participants.

“We have to face the reality,” said Krasnik. Anti-Semitism is “an import of the Middle Eastern conflict to Copenhagen.” “Multiculturalism is simply not working as an ideology,” he said, pointing out that the immigrant ghetto of Mjølnerparken—where, according to 2003 census data, 92 percent of its residents were from “non-Western” backgrounds—has emerged as a “parallel society,” one that has little in common with the world he inhabits.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/128077/hiding-judaism-in-copenhagen/2
 


baalthor

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Maybe the Chief Rabbi hasn't been keeping up with current events but there are millions of Muslims living in Israel and the lands controlled by Israel.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Apparently not according to their Chief Rabbi, echoing previous comments by former EU Commissioner Fritz Bolkenstein.

Similarly, in Denmark and Sweden it seems that the middle eastern conflict and tensions are being carried into those societies.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/128077/hiding-judaism-in-copenhagen/2
Just down the railway from me in Malmö, Jews are being systematically forced out of there homes. There is unofficial approval from the people running Malmö city. The situation in Malmö looks like being played out all over Europe.

In Copenhagen it is nowhere near as bad for jews as it is in Malmö, but it is escalating rapidly in Copenhagen.

The police know full well who is behind this and so does everyone else. They make no attempt to hide what they are doing and boast about it openly. The fact this wat is in effect a pogrom against jews is being allowed to continue, is insane, in my opinion.
 

Aindriu

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Post 2! FFS! Post 2!
 

Hitch 22

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Maybe the Chief Rabbi hasn't been keeping up with current events but there are millions of Muslims living in Israel and the lands controlled by Israel.
There are millions of Jews living there too.

Any sensible person would seek a peaceful solution whereby Jews and Muslims in the Middle East can live side by side in either two state or one state or whatever and where ethnic, religious, political and territorial disputes are solved without bloodshed.

The conflict in the Middle East does not justify hatred and bigotry toward Jews in the Netherlands by Muslim new comers. Both Jews and Muslims are entitled to live in the Netherlands too.

It is revolting that anti-Jewish hatred is rife 70 years after the Holocaust.

The two most famous Jews associated with the Netherlands are Spinoza, the philosopher who coined the phrase Cogito Ergo Sum or "I think therefore I am, " a key insight that spurred the Enlightenment and the development of liberal Western thought and of course Anne Frank, the German Jewish girl who kept a diary while she and her family hid in vain from the Nazi round up of Jews.

Whether it is supernatural or otherwise the evil spirit of anti-semitism still persists despite the horrors of Auschwitz having been exposed to the world.
 

Telemachus

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I can not believe it, the promotion of open-borders by supremacists like Straw, Celler, Shatter, Sarkozy(all co-ethnics) could backfire! Oh - what a tragedy!

[video=youtube;MFE0qAiofMQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ[/video]
 
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There are millions of Jews living there too.

Any sensible person would seek a peaceful solution whereby Jews and Muslims in the Middle East can live side by side in either two state or one state or whatever and where ethnic, religious, political and territorial disputes are solved without bloodshed.

The conflict in the Middle East does not justify hatred and bigotry toward Jews in the Netherlands by Muslim new comers. Both Jews and Muslims are entitled to live in the Netherlands too.

It is revolting that anti-Jewish hatred is rife 70 years after the Holocaust.

The two most famous Jews associated with the Netherlands are Spinoza, the philosopher who coined the phrase Cogito Ergo Sum or "I think therefore I am, " a key insight that spurred the Enlightenment and the development of liberal Western thought and of course Anne Frank, the German Jewish girl who kept a diary while she and her family hid in vain from the Nazi round up of Jews.

Whether it is supernatural or otherwise the evil spirit of anti-semitism still persists despite the horrors of Auschwitz having been exposed to the world.
Errrr, Descartes coined the "cogito ergo sum" thing.
 

SilverSpurs

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Prejudice based on choice of skyfairy is an obscenity in my book. Also a sad reminder of how history has that unfortunate knack of repeating itself.
 

Hitch 22

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Errrr, Descartes coined the "cogito ergo sum" thing.
Oh sorry. My bad. :D

Descartes was Jewish and at the time Amsterdam had a thriving Jewish community with a rich intellectual culture
Indeed anywhere Jews went and settled in Europe they did well despite adverse conditions, persecutions and cruelty from non-Jews.
By necessity Jews had to study harder and worker hard and be more inventive to survive.

[video=youtube;YUcBmD8XhHU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUcBmD8XhHU[/video]
 

sauntersplash

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Apparently not according to their Chief Rabbi, echoing previous comments by former EU Commissioner Fritz Bolkenstein.



Similarly, in Denmark and Sweden it seems that the middle eastern conflict and tensions are being carried into those societies.



http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/128077/hiding-judaism-in-copenhagen/2
Errrr, Descartes coined the "cogito ergo sum" thing.
Spinoza was excommunicated for heresy and lived a modest life of exclusion and ignominy.
 
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Oh sorry. My bad. :D

Descartes was Jewish and at the time Amsterdam had a thriving Jewish community with a rich intellectual culture
Indeed anywhere Jews went and settled in Europe they did well despite adverse conditions, persecutions and cruelty from non-Jews.
By necessity Jews had to study harder and worker hard and be more inventive to survive.

[video=youtube;YUcBmD8XhHU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUcBmD8XhHU[/video]
Well, the fact that Descartes said it doesn't detract from the eminence of Spinoza. A very major figure.
 

The System Works

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War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Diversity is Our Strength.

- 1984 updated for 2013. This is all the fault of mass immigration from Third World, illiberal cultures.
 

sauntersplash

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Oh sorry. My bad. :D

Descartes was Jewish and at the time Amsterdam had a thriving Jewish community with a rich intellectual culture
Indeed anywhere Jews went and settled in Europe they did well despite adverse conditions, persecutions and cruelty from non-Jews.
By necessity Jews had to study harder and worker hard and be more inventive to survive.
What? Descartes was a French Christian.

Stop talking nonsense about philosophy please.
 
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Spinoza was excommunicated for heresy and lived a modest life of exclusion and ignominy.
I have his wiki page open in another tab, just to refresh my mind about him.

He was an amazing man.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Just down the railway from me in Malmö, Jews are being systematically forced out of there homes. There is unofficial approval from the people running Malmö city. The situation in Malmö looks like being played out all over Europe.

In Copenhagen it is nowhere near as bad for jews as it is in Malmö, but it is escalating rapidly in Copenhagen.

The police know full well who is behind this and so does everyone else. They make no attempt to hide what they are doing and boast about it openly. The fact this wat is in effect a pogrom against jews is being allowed to continue, is insane, in my opinion.
Truly disturbing that this could be happening in 2013.
 

diaspora-mick

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I have his wiki page open in another tab, just to refresh my mind about him.

He was an amazing man.
Well his co-religionists in Amsterdam didn't have such a high opinion of him.

"The Lords of the ma'amad, having long known of the evil opinions and acts of Baruch de Espinoza, have endeavord by various means and promises, to turn him from his evil ways. But having failed to make him mend his wicked ways, and, on the contrary, daily receiving more and more serious information about the abominable heresies which he practiced and taught and about his monstrous deeds, and having for this numerous trustworthy witnesses who have deposed and born witness to this effect in the presence of the said Espinoza, they became convinced of the truth of the matter; and after all of this has been investigated in the presence of the honorable chachamin, they have decided, with their consent, that the said Espinoza should be excommunicated and expelled from the people of Israel. By the decree of the angels, and by the command of the holy men, we excommunicate, expel, curse and damn Baruch de Espinoza, with the consent of God, Blessed be He, and with the consent of all the Holy Congregation, in front of these holy Scrolls with the six-hundred-and-thirteen precepts which are written therein, with the excommunication with which Joshua banned Jericho, with the curse with which Elisha cursed the boys, and with all the curses which are written in the Book of the Law. Cursed be he by day and cursed be he by night; cursed be he when he lies down, and cursed be he when he rises up; cursed be he when he goes out, and cursed be he when he comes in. The Lord will not spare him; the anger and wrath of the Lord will rage against this man, and bring upon him all the curses which are written in this book, and the Lord will blot out his name from under heaven, and the Lord will separate him to his injury from all the tribes of Israel with all the curses of the covenant, which are written in the Book of the Law. But you who cleave unto the Lord God are all alive this day. We order that no one should communicate with him orally or in writing, or show him any favor, or stay with him under the same roof, or within four ells of him, or read anything composed or written by him."
 

TruthSeeker

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May 24, 2006
Messages
196
Oh sorry. My bad. :D

Descartes was Jewish and at the time Amsterdam had a thriving Jewish community with a rich intellectual culture
Indeed anywhere Jews went and settled in Europe they did well despite adverse conditions, persecutions and cruelty from non-Jews.
By necessity Jews had to study harder and worker hard and be more inventive to survive.

[video=youtube;YUcBmD8XhHU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUcBmD8XhHU[/video]
Descartes was actually a Catholic and a pretty devout one at that.
Jews didn't always have it bad. They were often part of the elite of society
with successive generations completly dominating their host societies.
I am thinking of Poland in 13th Century under Kasmir the gReat when they were invited to remain
and eventually became the largest land owning class.
 

Hitch 22

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What? Descartes was a French Christian.

Stop talking nonsense about philosophy please.
Sorry I'm a little mixed up. I meant Spinoza but I was mistaken that he came up with Cogito Ergo Sum.
What I should have said is that Spinoza was a key philosopher in the origin of the Enlightenment.

My point was for centuries Jews in the Netherlands and Jews in other communities throughout Europe through the necessity to survive through themselves into progressive thinking, ideas, science, philosophy etc.

After they were nearly extinguished by the Nazis once again Jews are coming under attack.
 

sauntersplash

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I have his wiki page open in another tab, just to refresh my mind about him.

He was an amazing man.
The Ethics remains a very relevant book, to my mind. Challenging enough to read, but honest in its structure. Certainly the most stimulating of the Continental "big three" to a contemporary reader. Deleuze's work on him is good for a laugh also.
 

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