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A hypothetical alternative to the cutting of public-sector salaries and allowances.


davidcameron

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'We are eating into our savings' - Independent.ie

STEPHEN McDonnell (40) and Annemarie McGuire (31), pictured below, are both staff nurses at a busy Dublin A&E who admit they are already struggling financially.
"Nurses, guards, prison officers – everybody here is in the same boat," she added.

"Part of our work is that we have to provide 24-hour cover, Christmas Day, bank holidays, night duty.

"These allowances are a presumed part of our pay," said Stephen.

"Unfortunately they want to hit us rather than go after the bloated layer of middle management in the health service.

"We are seen as an easy target," he added.
Instead of cutting salaries or allowances, the Government should propose the following deal to public-sector workers who have unsociable working-hours:

We will not cut your salaries or allowances if you support us in a plan to make the middle-managers of the health service redundant.

If IMPACT members, i.e. clerical workers, cleaners, porters, went on strike, then agency staff, hospital consultants' private practice clerical employees and Defence Forces personnel could be brought in to fill the gap. Therefore, medical and nursing personnel could carry on with their duties.

I believe that doctors, nurses, paramedics, firefighters, gardaí and prison officers would be happy to co-operate with the Government in a plan to save money by reducing bureaucracy, thus protecting the front-line.
 

RobertW

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You cannot run something as complex as a hospital without administrators.
 

wombat

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You cannot run something as complex as a hospital without administrators.
Imagine trying to schedule an operation without a manager?
 

wombat

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Anyone who can read, write and is computer-literate can do hospital administration.
Is binn béal ina thost - quit while you're ahead:lol:
 

Pat Gill

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Imagine trying to schedule an operation without a manager?
I agree, but as someone who has spent months at a time in hospital over the last few years, an interested observer can soon pick up solid clues that many hospitals are over administered and under nursed.
 

davidcameron

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I cannot understand why the 24/7 Alliance will not criticise the unions that represent surplus HSE bureaucrats. My hypothesis is workable. After all, it worked in Britain in the 1980s.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Divide and conquer....why not? It's worked before.

I am wholly behind protecting front line workers and hitting the fat, the middle 'management' and admin, with the old industrial Lyposuction 2000.

And cut salaries over €45k on a graduated basis.

As for the 'work to rule' cohort how about 'get another job' where you think you'll get more favourable terms and conditions?

Seemingly the private sector is a limitless abyss of overpaid opportunity with security of employment and golden pension pot payoffs to be had at every turn. In fact Every Private sector worker is ENTITLED, no less, to such beautifully lovely treatment :D
 

dancl2000

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'We are eating into our savings' - Independent.ie





Instead of cutting salaries or allowances, the Government should propose the following deal to public-sector workers who have unsociable working-hours:

We will not cut your salaries or allowances if you support us in a plan to make the middle-managers of the health service redundant.

If IMPACT members, i.e. clerical workers, cleaners, porters, went on strike, then agency staff, hospital consultants' private practice clerical employees and Defence Forces personnel could be brought in to fill the gap. Therefore, medical and nursing personnel could carry on with their duties.

I believe that doctors, nurses, paramedics, firefighters, gardaí and prison officers would be happy to co-operate with the Government in a plan to save money by reducing bureaucracy, thus protecting the front-line.
Lets say all the workers accept this offer.

And then lets say that some or all of those middle managers were involved in bureaucracy which was essential to the good functioning of those front line services. As a result the service degrades drastically in quality and stops functioning effectively.

You have to admit that this outcome is at least as likely (and probably vastly more likely) than your assumed outcome that middle management can be eliminated without any loss of organisation or effectiveness
 

neiphin

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I agree, but as someone who has spent months at a time in hospital over the last few years, an interested observer can soon pick up solid clues that many hospitals are over administered and under nursed.

 

Pat Gill

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Lets say all the workers accept this offer.

And then lets say that some or all of those middle managers were involved in bureaucracy which was essential to the good functioning of those front line services. As a result the service degrades drastically in quality and stops functioning effectively.

You have to admit that this outcome is at least as likely (and probably vastly more likely) than your assumed outcome that middle management can be eliminated without any loss of organisation or effectiveness
Every endevour known to mankind requires competent administration in order to be successful but there must be a balance and the HSE simply has too many administrators at present.
 

dresden8

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Seemingly the private sector is a limitless abyss of overpaid opportunity with security of employment and golden pension pot payoffs to be had at every turn. In fact Every Private sector worker is ENTITLED, no less, to such beautifully lovely treatment :D
That's odd, according to our resident private sector workers and company directors, work in the private sector is akin to life in the magdalene laundries without all the fringe benefits.
 

dancl2000

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Every endevour known to mankind requires competent administration in order to be successful but there must be a balance and the HSE simply has too many administrators at present.
right. so there needs to be a judgement as to what administration needs to be kept, what can go and what needs to be changed.

the workers are not good people to make these judgements. neither are the administrators or the public for that matter. firing administrators to save money on the basis that the workers are ok in principle to pick up the slack is a recipe for disaster
 

Pat Gill

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right. so there needs to be a judgement as to what administration needs to be kept, what can go and what needs to be changed.
Correct.

the workers are not good people to make these judgements. neither are the administrators or the public for that matter.
All of the above categories would have an insight but it is a management responsibility.

firing administrators to save money on the basis that the workers are ok in principle to pick up the slack is a recipe for disaster
Approached correctly no one needs to be fired but the simple fact is that there is needless duplication and unnecessary work being carried out on a daily basis, this has been the case for years and now would be a good time to remedy the situation.
 

Franzoni

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I watched a programme recently about the cost of healthcare in the US..

One point that was made and i found astonishing... was a person going in for an operation had their case go through nearly three hundred different people......:shock:....this was given as one of the reasons for why it was so expensive...

I don't know what it is like here in that regard ....but from some of my own experiences from working in them as a contractor plus my sister is in the HSE and the usual dealing as we all do with elderly family members and relations something is fundamentally wrong......

You can't just wipe out the ad-min of a hospital but i agree there does seem to be too many chiefs in the upper levels....my sister is now doing the work of three people since two of her colleagues retired last year with the deal that was done....when she was out sick with the flu before christmas on her return to work one of the senior people said to her they never realised how much she actually did ...........:roll:...pretty bad when the senior administrators don't know their staffs workload........
 

Baztard

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The HSE is a very complex beast, every thing from hospitals to services in the community. It simply isn't good enough to state that the HSE simply has too many administrators at present without identifying where someone thinks they currently exist. In my view the Government should firstly do a straight comparison between the top layers i.e. Assistant National Director (AND) level and above and their equivalent, before the Health Boards were abolished and the situation now as a starting point. This would identify, in my view, a serious number of made up positions. Begin to factor in their PA's or equivalents i.e. grade 3 or 4 and I am sure we could release staff to areas where they are needed in the HSE (Children and Mental Health services spring to mind) or get shot f them. An AND is on at least €125k, I think, so it doesn't take too many to start making a serious dent in payroll costs year on year.
 
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