A Lost Tribe – the British in a corner of Ireland

Irish-Rationalist

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A thorough critique of the P-U-L presence in the north-eastern corner of Ireland. The "c" word (colonist) is used throughout, and the subtopics of 'Maintaining Supremacism', 'Un-British Unionism', 'Unionist Identity and Crisis' and 'Raging With Confusion' et. al. offer a very detailed analysis.

A lot of uncomfortable truth (for Unionists) is conveyed here, and if read in full, this article provides plenty of material for debate:

Ruaidri Ua Conchobair: A Lost Tribe – the “British” in a corner of Ireland

However, I've noticed that debate is not our Unionist brethren's strong point (uber-understatement), so I guess the Nationalist and other posters shall be left in peace to debate amongst themselves.
 


Cruimh

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Flaming? Surely not?

Are you still trying to run with the notion that the Nordie prods are cuckoos in the Oirish Nest and that the people of the ROI regard the Nordie Nationalists like Adams as lost and oppressed brothers? History shows otherwise - with the Nordie natonalist whingers being rebuffed time and time again....

Lemass:

Eddie McAteer has written of his shock at being told by taoiseach Seán Lemass in 1959 that Catholics in the North were as intractable as Protestants. As McAteer commented,

It was hardly the reaction I had expected for a Taoiseach with his republican background to the representative of the oppressed Irish minority of the six counties. I came away with the conviction that as far as Seán Lemass was concerned the Northern Irish were very much on their own.
Page 200, Violence, Politics and Catholicism in Ireland, Oliver P. Rafferty SJ

Childers assessment of the situation in the North, page 149

This evaluation is important, not as an accurate assessment of the problem, but rather as an indication of the relatively low weight attached to an issue that would soon appear at the core of the crisis of the northern state. It was symptomatic that the only concrete case of injustice which was singled out by Childers was that of a student at St Columb's College in Derry. According to Childers, the student had been expelled for suggesting at a Debating Society meeting, attended by the nationalist MP Eddie McAteer, that the nationalist MPs should play a more constructive role at Stormont, 'instead of contenting themselves with relying entirely on anti-partitionist propaganda'. Childers clearly saw this injustice to what he described as a 'very normal young man and a loyal practising Catholic'[SUP]21[/SUP] as indicative of the need for Dublin to deal with claims of discrimination in a more nuanced way.
Patterson: Seán Lemass and the Ulster Question, 1959-65, Journal of Contemporary History, Vol. 34, No. 1 (Jan., 1999).

Not forgetting the suggestion in the Dáil from Martin Corry in 1938 that everybody in NI should be killed with Poison gas ..... so much for the all-Oirland brudderly love :D
 
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Levellers

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We all know how the PUL community arrived in Ireland but no one with any credibility suggests they should leave their homes after hundreds of years. The fact that they choose to be slaves of a foreign country who has no regard for them makes them more to be pitied that criticised.

They are not even British under the rules they so obsequiously cling too. Arriving in England 'Paddy' from the Shankill is seen as no different than if he was from Cork.
 

between the bridges

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400 years of glorious victory over big girls blouses...
 

PBP voter

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Unionists don't give a ************************ what others think. Hence they went out and massacred people and were prepared to continue to do so forever. Just like the founders of Israel in 48.

Republicans want to be loved. They need to go and sit in a pub abroad, get drunk and be liked by the locals. The locals just laugh at these piss artists in reality. They can't stand by incidents like Enniskillen yet Unionists/Loyalist/British government did worse acts and just don't give a feck. They just laugh at things like the Ballymuprhy massacre,Bloody Sunday,Dublin/Monaghan bombings etc. They laugh in the face of victims. Horrible bunch of imperialist pigs is all they are.
 
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ardsman

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Unionists don't give a ************************ what others think. Hence they went out and massacred people and were prepared to continue to do so forever. Just like the founders of Israel in 48.

Republicans want to be loved. They need to go and sit in a pub abroad, get drunk and be liked by the locals. The locals just laugh at these piss artists in reality. They can't stand by incidents like Enniskillen yet Unionists/Loyalist/British government did worse acts and just don't give a feck. They just laugh at things like the Ballymuprhy massacre,Bloody Sunday,Dublin/Monaghan bombings etc. They laugh in the face of victims. Horrible bunch of imperialist pigs is all they are.
Give us a cuddle...
 

blokesbloke

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A thorough critique of the P-U-L presence in the north-eastern corner of Ireland. The "c" word (colonist) is used throughout, and the subtopics of 'Maintaining Supremacism', 'Un-British Unionism', 'Unionist Identity and Crisis' and 'Raging With Confusion' et. al. offer a very detailed analysis.

A lot of uncomfortable truth (for Unionists) is conveyed here, and if read in full, this article provides plenty of material for debate:

Ruaidri Ua Conchobair: A Lost Tribe – the “British” in a corner of Ireland

However, I've noticed that debate is not our Unionist brethren's strong point (uber-understatement), so I guess the Nationalist and other posters shall be left in peace to debate amongst themselves.
And you approve of these terms, do you, Irish "Rationalist"?

I'd hate to meet an Irish Irrationalist...
 

Glaucon

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Unionism started off as a colonial ideology, of course, otherwise the Lowland Scottish and English undertakers and their tenants would have stayed where they were. It still has blatantly colonial off-shoots like the OO and the (right wing) Loyalist band scene.

That said, your average Unionist is not a "colonist" nor does he see himself as buying into colonialism. He is simply "British" and is not for changing.
 

Cruimh

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The truth that dare not speak it's name - the main parties in the ROI would love repartition - with four counties uniting with the 26 and two counties being walled off for the Shinners and their fans ..... the thought of a couple of hundred thousand of Adams' ilk sends shudders down their spines ;)
 

Glaucon

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The truth that dare not speak it's name - the main parties in the ROI would love repartition - with four counties uniting with the 26 and two counties being walled off for the Shinners and their fans ..... the thought of a couple of hundred thousand of Adams' ilk sends shudders down their spines ;)
I'd agree with that, as it happens.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Flaming? Surely not?

Are you still trying to run with the notion that the Nordie prods are cuckoos in the Oirish Nest and that the people of the ROI regard the Nordie Nationalists like Adams as lost and oppressed brothers? History shows otherwise - with the Nordie natonalist whingers being rebuffed time and time again....

Lemass:



Page 200, Violence, Politics and Catholicism in Ireland, Oliver P. Rafferty SJ

Childers assessment of the situation in the North, page 149



Patterson: Seán Lemass and the Ulster Question, 1959-65, Journal of Contemporary History, Vol. 34, No. 1 (Jan., 1999).

Not forgetting the suggestion in the Dáil from Martin Corry in 1938 that everybody in NI should be killed with Poison gas ..... so much for the all-Oirland brudderly love :D
No doubt you haven't bothered to read Ruaidri Ua Conchobai's article in full, or at all, and instead believe that posting vaguely relevant waffle shall derail the thread, or perchance nudge it off course or in your desired direction.

Back on track, and here's the crucial question:

If minded to indulge in some long overdue rational self analysis the NI Protestant community might wish to pose to themselves this simple question; if the nation(al) identity of the citizens of the United Kingdom are English, Welsh and Scottish but NI Protestants are none of these, what's your unique national identity?
In addendum:

In my humble opinion, it's time the current generation of NI Protestants obliged themselves to decide whether after several centuries they're truly Irish or whether they've cogent reasons for still somehow perceiving themselves to be some dwindling, half-named ethnic and political fringe community existing in a perpetual state of siege in the north-east corner of the island of Ireland.

To the outside world, the Irish in Ireland are in their homeland and the British in Ireland are in their colony.It's time, the "lost tribe" found themselves.
Thoughts?
 

Irish-Rationalist

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We all know how the PUL community arrived in Ireland but no one with any credibility suggests they should leave their homes after hundreds of years. The fact that they choose to be slaves of a foreign country who has no regard for them makes them more to be pitied that criticised.

They are not even British under the rules they so obsequiously cling too. Arriving in England 'Paddy' from the Shankill is seen as no different than if he was from Cork.
"Home" being the appropriate word. No-one, certainly not Republicans of any persuasion are suggesting that PULs should be repatriated back to their "mainland". Merely that they attempt to accept their land of birth and embrace Irish national cultural identity. I know it's difficult for them, given that their culture has traditionally been separatist, triumphalist and antithetical to virtually everything Irish.

They are treated like Irish by the (real) British, so why not behave as an Irishman and rebel? Their Presbyterian forefathers (United Irishmen) had the right idea. A reversion to Protestant Irish republicanism of old would be in their favour.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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And you approve of these terms, do you, Irish "Rationalist"?

I'd hate to meet an Irish Irrationalist...
I neither approve nor disapprove of them, as they're not my terms. They're the terms used by the author of the article. What is irrational about Unionists attempting to maintain their supremacism? Do Unionists not suffer from identity confusion?
 

blokesbloke

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I neither approve nor disapprove of them, as they're not my terms. They're the terms used by the author of the article. What is irrational about Unionists attempting to maintain their supremacism? Do Unionists not suffer from identity confusion?
Some of them might but by no means all. I've spoken to some on here who seem very clear about their identity and I understand it perfectly.

You're using the terms to make a point, so you can't disassociate yourself from them that easily. Presumably if you didn't approve of them they wouldn't support your point.

I merely asked if you if felt that such emotive terms fitted the image of "Rationalist" - to me they do not.

Perhaps you are suffering from identity confusion which you are projecting onto the PUL community?
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Unionism started off as a colonial ideology, of course, otherwise the Lowland Scottish and English undertakers and their tenants would have stayed where they were. It still has blatantly colonial off-shoots like the OO and the (right wing) Loyalist band scene.

That said, your average Unionist is not a "colonist" nor does he see himself as buying into colonialism. He is simply "British" and is not for changing.
Before 1921 all of Ireland was a British colony - fact. After partition the 6 counties remained under British rule - fact. The six counties continue to remain under British (devolved) rule since the GFA of 1998, albeit with some administrative changes benefitting the previously disadvantaged minority Irish Nationalist community.

The raison d'etre of Unionism is to sustain partition and foreign British rule in the 6 counties. NI is an inverted 6 county colony, in that it's not the British government who wish to maintain the colony, but the colonists themselves, and in their own interests. Ulster Unionism is British colonialism, and Unionists are not only the descendants of colonists, they effectively are still colonists.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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The truth that dare not speak it's name - the main parties in the ROI would love repartition - with four counties uniting with the 26 and two counties being walled off for the Shinners and their fans ..... the thought of a couple of hundred thousand of Adams' ilk sends shudders down their spines ;)
Comedy isn't your forte. But hey, we all need a pastime.
 

agamemnon

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Many years ago Ken Maginnis pointed out the irony of the situation where he, the Unionist, had ancient Irish ancestry while Gerry Adams, the Nationalist, was from planter stock!
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Some of them might but by no means all. I've spoken to some on here who seem very clear about their identity and I understand it perfectly.

You're using the terms to make a point, so you can't disassociate yourself from them that easily. Presumably if you didn't approve of them they wouldn't support your point.

I merely asked if you if felt that such emotive terms fitted the image of "Rationalist" - to me they do not.

Perhaps you are suffering from identity confusion which you are projecting onto the PUL community?
My identity is clearly defined; I'm Irish. PULS suffer from multiple identity disorder, in that they describe themselves as British, Northern Irish, Ulster-Scots et. al., with very few describing themselves as Irish, and despite being born on the isalnd of Ireland and having ancestry that goes back more than 400 years.

Maintaining the British separatist and supremacist identity is purely rational, for them, as the intent of the colonist was never to assimilate, but to impose British culture on the indigenous Irish and to dominate. I think it should be obvious by now that those days are over. So the PULs cling onto their culture of British national superiority in vain.
 

purpledon

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Many years ago Ken Maginnis pointed out the irony of the situation where he, the Unionist, had ancient Irish ancestry while Gerry Adams, the Nationalist, was from planter stock!
What's even more ironic is the Ken Maginnis and others of his ike hate their fellow Irish people, the country itself, the language, the music and the culture. Their only interest in Ireland is the retention of their perceived dominance.
 


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