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A new Green/social democratic party


erigena

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
121
The idea of old testament prophecy was to prevent the events predicted. In this spirit, we ex-Green party members offer the following alternative.


Eire ghlas/ Green Ireland founding principles

Prologue

Eire ghlas attempts to realise the aspiration that the rights of the planet are the rights of the person. Green parties to date have run the risk of forgetting about issues like social justice in their righteous enthusiasm to save the biosphere. While this enthusiasm is not misplaced, there is a fatal flaw in conventional “intrinsic value” Green thought; the person is the culmination of nature, and political parties should never value the rest of nature over the person. The resulting political project, our political project, is a far more interesting one that that of conventional Green thought.

We argue that environmental destruction, which is indeed accelerating at frightening rates, is ultimately the result of centuries'-long attacks at the dignity of the human being, both by forces on the left and on the right. To realise our full humanity in all its physical, biological, social, intellectual and spiritual dimensions, which is the real project of every human life, includes within itself the project of caring for the biosphere of which we are part. Specifically, this project, stated as a political program, is radical enough to dismiss as capitalist propaganda current neoliberal thought, and as socialist propaganda attacks on the post-enlightenment concept of the individual in the name of any kind of forced collectivism including so-called “social partnership”. Social justice, thought of as economic fairness, can be achieved neither by capitalism or its communist mirror-image; it requires the altogether more sophisticated resources of economic game theory, among much else. Environmental costs need to be factored in as concretely as real human effort, as distinct from manipulation of economic indices, in considering any plan of action.


Ireland, 2007

The past dozen years have been glory years for economic neoliberals in Ireland; by the same token, the next 15 will be the opposite. The surrender of control of interest rates, and self-imposition of draconian interpretations of relatively broad EU guidelines like those on competition, effectively created a property bubble, and deprived the state of the economic autonomy that Arthur Griffith so stressed. Emboldened by their empowerment due to these circumstances, neoliberals undertook a project of running down and privatising many state services that had taken generations of dedicated work to build up. The resulting mess has produced the most privately indebted country in the world per head of real income, and a thoroughly disempowered younger generation. At the height of this period, with extraordinary rendition/torture flights being allowed in Shannon, the FF/PD government attempted to impose the same kind of e-voting system that has been discredited and abandoned in the US. That was Ireland's moral nadir, and fortunately we stopped them

In the meantime, the official “Green” party has expressed a willingness to negotiate for a place in government with this thoroughly criminal government. For this reason alone, it would be imperative to form an alternative green party; however, there are many more positive reasons that we will now see.

Policy principles

Constitutional

EG believes that the sterling work of the Irish people in achieving an agreed-upon written constitution needs to be responded to in our generation with equal vision and courage. It believes that the following changes need to be made;
1.Deletion of the theocratic prologue in favour of a secular statement like that with which the Indian constitution opens
2 Addition of an amendment like the first amendment in the US which, by protecting religions from
the state, has also protected the state from religion. If necessary, the existence of individual conscience as the moral unit of the state needs to be stated explicitly.
3 Deletion of all other sectarian and sexist implications of the 1937 constitution



The People and its Territory

It is a historical fact that a terrorist campaign in the name of a united Ireland paradoxically led to the Irish state's dropping its claim on the north-eastern part of the island. The history of British colonisation and indeed genocide in Ireland, and the inspiration Ireland's revolts gave to other colonies, are similarly historical facts. While a united Ireland should remain an aspiration, the GFA has provided peace, and an altogether more interesting project is possible. One of our nobel laureates, John Hume, suggested that the 100 million or so people worldwide of irish ancestry should be offered nationality, if not citizenship.

State and civil society

The incursions by the state into civil society culminated in deepening of employer/union “partnerships” which resulted in a de facto loss of the right to withhold labour, to get reinstated once fired, and indeed to form trade unions in the public service (since the state insisted that you join one of its choice as a condition of employment). Simultaneously, membership of unions in the private sector is vanishing. This is one area that the state should withdraw from.

The experience of Ireland as an independent state indicates that the state can run a rudimentary health service, schools up to but not including third level (where its institutions need private competition), an airline, and a telecommunications network, inter alia. Its incursions into the music business and indeed the arts in general, software and most of science, and much else have had the sole effect of providing subsidised competition for altogether more talented individuals. All this needs to be rectified.

It looks rather as though the forthcoming crisis in the irish banking sector will demand state intervention; a de facto nationalisation of the banks by issuing Irish banking bonds. In this eventuality, a full-scale nationalisation will have happened, and must be adjusted in favour of the people and against the incompetent and immoral bank management.

The economy

Ireland must be prepared to regain control of its destiny, even if this means renegotiating the terms of its membership in the EU, WTO, and so on. For example, an average house should cost at most double one's income, and the mortgage should last at most 20 years. In a state that has borrowed $100 billion or so from foreign banks since 2003, this state of affairs will not be achieved without pain.

Environmental costs must be factored into every activity monitored by the state. Corporate enforcement must rise to the level of the US; this in itself will release massive energy from individual entrepreneurs who have been struggling under the crony capitalism that weighed on recent Irish public life, and destroyed countless businesses

Finally, it is taken as self-evident that the state should aspire to social justice, indeed equality of opportunity, for all its citizens.





Green Ireland

We still have a relatively pristine environment, be this due to penury and genocide rather than ethics. The mindset that would damage the hill of Tara needs to be expunged. Rigorous claims should be enforced on all our assets from predators, both from without and within. With this, an emphasis on Irish culture and its unbroken history for thousands of years needs to complement our experience of our beautiful country.
 


soubresauts

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Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
3,091
It's impressive, and maybe it did work. But there's more to be done...

I'll raise just one point, at this stage:

"We still have a relatively pristine environment..." I'm afraid that's too optimistic. Nearly every stream, river or lake is more or less polluted. Respect for water was lost in Ireland in the twentieth century.
 

erigena

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
121
rockofcashel said:
are you asking for members ?
A chara,

First of all, sincere commiserations about your Dail run. You have made many friends on P.ie, and have counteracted much of the demonisation of SF

We ex-greens put this in for several reasons;

1.To fill in the gaping holes in Green policy, particularly the constitutional and “deep ecology” material
2.To warn the negotiators not to cave in to FF on core issues. Thus the reference at the start that what was going on was preventative. Unfortunately, it now looks as they will do a deal. I am genuinely shocked; John, Eamon, Paul, and Trevor are people I have spent long hours with, and I have drafted many Dail questions for them. We are aware of utterly criminal behaviour by FF in the music industry, DCU (see Dail, 18/12/2002), and much else.
3.Given the imminent demise of the GP, because one cannot negotiate with criminals, and FF are criminals, we will need a new green party.

So, in answer to Andrew (and I note the helpful change in tone, A) and yourself, we will register as a party and run in 2009 if Thursday turns out like I fear

Beir bua - e
 

erigena

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
121
soubresauts said:
It's impressive, and maybe it did work. But there's more to be done...

I'll raise just one point, at this stage:

"We still have a relatively pristine environment..." I'm afraid that's too optimistic. Nearly every stream, river or lake is more or less polluted. Respect for water was lost in Ireland in the twentieth century.

Yes, relatively only. Funny thing; my first Green action back in 1983 was a complaint against the pollution of the river in Kilkee, Co. Clare. Indeed, the local hack whose job it was did nothing, but the complaint resonated. One result was the famous successful action against further building in Kilkee's west end; another the successful Kildysart explosives case.

No idea how this got into Leinster; can some techie change its designation?
 

Squire Allworthy

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Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
1,404
Erigena

I hear have heard comment that the democratic structures, elections, appointments and placements in the Green Party are not all they should be and because of this and issues of policy there has been a drift of members out of the party. If what I hear is correct the object seems to be control and ensuring certain views prevail rather than democracy. Is any of it true?

But there again are such rumours just a case of the wrath of the bride rejected?
 

joemomma

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Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
476
Squire Allworthy said:
Erigena

I hear have heard comment that the democratic structures, elections, appointments and placements in the Green Party are not all they should be and because of this and issues of policy there has been a drift of members out of the party. If what I hear is correct the object seems to be control and ensuring certain views prevail rather than democracy. Is any of it true?

But there again are such rumours just a case of the wrath of the bride rejected?
I think you could probably predict Erigena's response to your query.
 

Marascal

Member
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
8
I can't believe this kind of leftie hippy nonsense still exists. We're poised on the chance of getting power and ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING about major issues and now you want to split?

Go back into protest politics and I guarantee you'll be whining for another 25 years about how terrible things are and ultimately achieve nothing.
 

green

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Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
136
Website
www.younggreens.ie
Marascal said:
We're poised on the chance of getting power and ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING about major issues and now you want to split?
<spinspinspin>
Well, erigena says the group will be comprised of ex-Greens like himself, who have previously found a pretext to leave, so it won't technically be a split.
</spinspinspin>
 

Thac0man

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
6,482
Twitter
twit taa woo
Marascal said:
I can't believe this kind of leftie hippy nonsense still exists.
A case of "you sow so shall you reap". Much of the Green parties initial success (or kick start) has been on the back of "Green Kudos", a powerful weapon in this age of public mistrust towards mainstream political movements/parties. Did you really think that you would be allowed to keep such a powerful weapon to yourselves?

On the bright side, if a Green Party is to be mainstream (as opposed to green issues which already are) you are better leaving some things behind.

Reading erigena's post, I don't think you will be leaving much behind that the Greens did not already find intact when they entered the political arena.
 

Marascal

Member
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
8
I'm supposed I'm just annoyed at elements that make threatening noises to jump ship at any point when it looks like we're achieving something.

Out of interest Erigena, How many lampposts were you up during the campaign? And how exactly did you expect the party to gain political power?
 

green

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Apr 21, 2003
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Website
www.younggreens.ie
Marascal said:
Out of interest Erigena, How many lampposts were you up during the campaign?
He wasn't up any. He's stated elsewhere that he left after 2002 because the party was too concerned with politics and wasn't spending enough time centring its moral compass or something.
 

Marascal

Member
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
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Too concerned with politics is it. Does he know we're a political party? I feel foolish for wasting my time on him.
 

ciaranmac

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
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4
There are a lot of very worthwhile aims in that programme. How do you propose to implement it?
 

soubresauts

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Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
3,091
green said:
He's stated elsewhere that he left after 2002 because the party was too concerned with politics and wasn't spending enough time centring its moral compass or something.
Whatever about politics, it's obvious now that the GP failed to centre its moral compass. If you've read Animal Farm you can see that the party has reached the stage of

Four legs good, two legs better.
 

Gombeen

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
76
Is this for real Eriugena? Are you and others seriously going to set up an alternative Green Party?
 

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