A new union - Ireland and Scotland

JCSkinner

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
1,247
Website
skinflicks.blogspot.com
This isn't really foreign affairs, but there isn't a constitutional section of the forum.
And the point I'm hoping to make is that Scotland isn't really foreign, but is really extremely similar in culture and mentality to Ireland.
With Scotland finally on the brink of a political break with the English, one they have long sought and long deserved, and with Ireland suffering from both partition and ongoing gombeen governance, is it possible we could solve all the problems in one fell swoop with a single bold move - a political alliance with Scotland?
In short, what do people feel about a new form of unionism, the union of Scotland and Ireland?

Skin Flicks: Let's ditch England
 


Risteard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
452
Of course Scotland's foreign (and yes, I do know what scoti means.

Ireland for the Irish. Scotland for the Scottish.
 

JCR

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
6,241
This isn't really foreign affairs, but there isn't a constitutional section of the forum.
And the point I'm hoping to make is that Scotland isn't really foreign, but is really extremely similar in culture and mentality to Ireland.
With Scotland finally on the brink of a political break with the English, one they have long sought and long deserved, and with Ireland suffering from both partition and ongoing gombeen governance, is it possible we could solve all the problems in one fell swoop with a single bold move - a political alliance with Scotland?
In short, what do people feel about a new form of unionism, the union of Scotland and Ireland?

Skin Flicks: Let's ditch England
Scotland might well have far less in common culturally and in mentality with Ireland than England. Maybe Ireland should wake up to reality and should break with this idea of ancient 'celtic' harmony. Its just a sports brand, wake up. And of course there already is a union of sorts of Ireland and Scotland - the unionist state of Northern Ireland, the majority of which want to be ruled by the Queen. Best thing we could do is get pragmatic within the EU and stop this islander 'celtic' charade for good.
 

JCR

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
6,241
If I've got the lunatic republican fringe and the even more lunatic eurofederalists united in disagreeing, it seems I might be onto something here!
Specially if your selling celtic AND rangers jerseys:lol: Gimme a break;)
 

Anamnua

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
316
The Gaelic scots were effectively wiped out in th highland clearances.
 

JCR

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
6,241
This isn't really foreign affairs, but there isn't a constitutional section of the forum.
And the point I'm hoping to make is that Scotland isn't really foreign, but is really extremely similar in culture and mentality to Ireland.
With Scotland finally on the brink of a political break with the English, one they have long sought and long deserved, and with Ireland suffering from both partition and ongoing gombeen governance, is it possible we could solve all the problems in one fell swoop with a single bold move - a political alliance with Scotland?
In short, what do people feel about a new form of unionism, the union of Scotland and Ireland?

Skin Flicks: Let's ditch England
How about a union of Ireland and Disneyland? that way we really could have a mickey mouse union:D.. And a mickey mouse government oh hang on, sorry we have that already:eek:
 

Fermoy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
617
The Gaelic scots were effectively wiped out in th highland clearances.
Not if we all come home again ,
and bring our Irish side with us :D
 

Interista

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
4,123
but is really extremely similar in culture and mentality to Ireland.
Things like 'culture and mentality' are almost impossible to define.

Yes, much of the traditional music, dance etc are very similar in both countries, and some (by no means all) Scots use to speak almost the same language as the Irish used to speak. But how much does this have to do with contemporary society? As for 'mentality', some would say it's very different, what with Scotland being a staunchly Presbyterian country. Although most Scots now are not religious, the associated 'mentality' remains. Add to that the fact that a small but vocal minority of Scots are committed unionists and positively dislike Ireland and everything associated with it. These Scots see themselves as having far more in common with England than with Ireland, and perhaps they're right.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
47
Umm.

I don't think Scotland's first act upon becoming autonomous would be to enter another union. That is what they have with the British, strictly speaking.

Talf of a similar 'culture' and 'mentality' is quite misleading.
 

scratchnsniff

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
256
I would guess that people all over Europe can look at those across international borders and find historical and cultural links that help to bond them.
This is one of the reasons why the EU works, we are becoming less nationalistic and more open to appreciating the subtleties of our cultural differences.
I would argue that our culture has as much and as little to do with parts of England as it does Scotland- I would not wish for any closer union involving only one or two peoples looking inward though.
We need to break down all our borders and move closer as a Union. I will now place myself on a lunatic fringe, I would be happy to see all the "home nations" as separate identities within a properly functioning European federation, I see no reason to keep peoples within Europe constrained by national identity. this national Identity is a wonderful thing for celebration, but it works against us when we use it to bolster historical prejudice.

We all have rich diverse Histories, I can not think of any nation that has not had to historically fight for its right for self determination. But these hard fought rights and sacrifices are not anchors holding us at one point in our own national history. Rather they are just the validation of our rights to choose.

Jc skinner, your Blog states that the Scottish have been waiting a long time for Independence, But AFAIK they can hold a referendum and do just that, their is no English govt to stop it, just the British one they are a part of.
Blaming the English for woes in modern times is i think a cop out, No one today is held under the barrel of a gun. Perhaps the Scottish are just waiting for a further evolved Europe, based on all our commonalities, Leaving with England rather than playing a negative.
 

Monday Monday

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
1,331
Hang on. Let's think this one through.

These Scotticans you speak of, are they rich?

Can they bail us out?

We grab 54 bil from the ECB. We don't tell the Scotticans. Then we get another 54 bil from them and, hey presto, €900 hotel rooms for everyone again!
 

scratchnsniff

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
256
Hang on. Let's think this one through.

These Scotticans you speak of, are they rich?

Can they bail us out?

We grab 54 bil from the ECB. We don't tell the Scotticans. Then we get another 54 bil from them and, hey presto, €900 hotel rooms for everyone again!

sold to the man in the hat! :eek:
(its raining)
 

FutureTaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
7,980
Website
greatdearleader.blogspot.com
I disagree. I have no problem with the Scots. But I contest this assertion on your part:
With Scotland finally on the brink of a political break with the English, one they have long sought and long deserved, and with Ireland suffering from both partition and ongoing gombeen governance, is it possible we could solve all the problems in one fell swoop with a single bold move - a political alliance with Scotland?
For years, Scottish polls have shown most are opposed to leaving the UK. I would compare it to how events would have turned out in Ireland had we been granted Home Rule. If Home Rule had been granted, it is possible we might not have left the UK. I am glad we left the UK. We now know that with the power to set our own taxation policy, we could attract massive American FDI into this country. But that was not known in 1874-1918. And neither do to the Scots know of their potential as an independent economy.

You also have to remember that as a fellow Protestant country, Scots don't have the suspicion of England that has existed in Ireland. Probably more Scots fought for the British government as fought for Bonnie Prince Charlie.
 

JCSkinner

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
1,247
Website
skinflicks.blogspot.com
The man who takes his orders from dead people neg repped me for 'opposing Irish independence' by posting this thread.
Keep those gags coming, 'Risteard'.
I'd have to query characterisations of both England and Scotland as 'Protestant' countries. On another thread we established recently that Catholicism was the largest delusion prevalent in England. Likely the same in Scotland. I couldn't be arsed checking, since such bugaboos have little relevance in the modern era, except in base tribal terms for the lumpenproles.
I'd be enthused at Scotland's potential once they jettison the dead weight holding down their right to self-determination. And people like Donald Dewer and even Mr Salmond have demonstrated a significantly superior quality of political leadership than this half-nation has ever known.
There would be a bit of an embarrassing admission that we've been singularly crap at self-determination, but apart from that, what exactly would be the arguments AGAINST a close union with Scotland, if they'd have us, that is?
 

Risteard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
452
The man who takes his orders from dead people neg repped me for 'opposing Irish independence' by posting this thread.
Keep those gags coming, 'Risteard'.
No-one likes a tattle-tale. Remind me to issue further negative reputation to you in due course for that.
 

dotski_w_

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
2,474
Website
irishpollingreport.wordpress.com
This isn't really foreign affairs, but there isn't a constitutional section of the forum.
And the point I'm hoping to make is that Scotland isn't really foreign, but is really extremely similar in culture and mentality to Ireland.
With Scotland finally on the brink of a political break with the English, one they have long sought and long deserved, and with Ireland suffering from both partition and ongoing gombeen governance, is it possible we could solve all the problems in one fell swoop with a single bold move - a political alliance with Scotland?
In short, what do people feel about a new form of unionism, the union of Scotland and Ireland?
I fell you may be losing it .... Scottish nationalists wouldn't be looking to unite with Ireland having broken with England - for all the oul' enemy stuff, most of them (when not having a drink with Paddy) have more in common with them than with us.

Still, I'll have whatever your drinking - whisk(e)y of some variant, I presume???
 

JCSkinner

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
1,247
Website
skinflicks.blogspot.com
I fell you may be losing it .... Scottish nationalists wouldn't be looking to unite with Ireland having broken with England - for all the oul' enemy stuff, most of them (when not having a drink with Paddy) have more in common with them than with us.

Still, I'll have whatever your drinking - whisk(e)y of some variant, I presume???
That's what I remain unconvinced about. Even in Edinburgh, the Scots have very little in common relatively with the English, beyond the all-pervasive influence that London exerts over the whole archipelago.
They have little in common with the Northern English and much less in common with the 'Home Counties' Tory set.
But they have much culturally, societally and (dare one say it) ethnically in common with Ireland.
As I said previously, they probably wouldn't be interested in linking up with a basketcase like us, never mind the bastard child up North.
But from an IRISH perspective, what's against it?
 

slx

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
883
That's what I remain unconvinced about. Even in Edinburgh, the Scots have very little in common relatively with the English, beyond the all-pervasive influence that London exerts over the whole archipelago.
They have little in common with the Northern English and much less in common with the 'Home Counties' Tory set.
But they have much culturally, societally and (dare one say it) ethnically in common with Ireland.
As I said previously, they probably wouldn't be interested in linking up with a basketcase like us, never mind the bastard child up North.
But from an IRISH perspective, what's against it?
There's certainly a case for a deeper level of cooperation, perhaps along the lines of the Nordic countries, but as for a political union of any type, what's the point? We've already got our connections via the EU.

I mean, the Norwegians and the Finns absolutely detest the Swedes in much the same way as ourselves and the Scots love the English, but they still do the happy-families thing through the Nordic Council.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top