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A Nod To China... ?


The Caped Cod

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Some may remember the consternation in a coffee mug caused by Obama bowing to the Chinese leaders.




I didn't really think much of it until I saw this this morning from French President Nicolas Sarkozy's current trip to China.



Et voilà, une nouvelle tempête dans une tasse de thé !


Some French commentators have by-passed the direct critique of Sarkozy (handily enough) and have put it down to a recognition of China's power.

Any thoughts?
 


willoughby

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If there was one country i'd like to be in with in the future its China. In fifty years (or maybe even 20) they will be the new world leaders, except without all the American dream stuff.
 

The Caped Cod

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If there was one country i'd like to be in with in the future its China. In fifty years (or maybe even 20) they will be the new world leaders, except without all the American dream stuff.
The Chinese nightmare more like, but then again the American dream seems to have ended up being just that, a dream.
I see your point about investing in future 'friendships' alright. I wonder if in 50 years Chinese people will be picking tatty sh*t and saying, "Ah no, not mo cwap Ma' ee' I'lan' !"
 

eoghanacht

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Are the Chinese media wondering why their Leaders shake hands?, a bow is customary in the Orient. Good manners, although Everybody is aware how beholden we are to them, best not upset them.
 

eoghanacht

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If there was one country i'd like to be in with in the future its China. In fifty years (or maybe even 20) they will be the new world leaders, except without all the American dream stuff.
20 years, aren't they already nearly there.
 

The Caped Cod

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Are the Chinese media wondering why their Leaders shake hands?,
I doubt it ;
Handshaking, is a kind of silent language, which is especially more important in China, although it is a popularly used form of greeting in many countries worldwide. It is the common propriety on most social occasions as an expression of courtesy and greeting when people meet or say goodbye to each other. Besides, handshaking is also a way to express congratulations, thanks and encouragement to others. Generally, you can make a simple address or beckon and then shake hands with each other, simultaneously with exchange of greetings.
Handshaking in China, Proprieties Regarding Handclasp
I notice though we don't see any pictures of reciprical bows. Lack of photo ops or lack of interest in publishing?
 

Interista

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Do the Chinese bow to one another? I didn't notice that when I was there a few months ago. I think that may have gone out with the cultural revolution.
 

willoughby

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20 years, aren't they already nearly there.
Yes but I would think that they would probably already have been on top a while before it is internationally acknowledged. America will be very clingy to their world superpower status.
 

Asparagus

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According to my granny and her nostradamus / colmcille fetish - the chinese (yellow race) will rule the world.

So there.
 

Marbellabound

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"According to my granny and her nostradamus / colmcille fetish - the chinese (yellow race) will rule the world."

There may be something in what your granny says.

Their one baby policy has led to a huge oversupply of young males in China (some would call this a ready made army) - and a huge supply of adopted chinese baby girls around the world.

Their food stores are in every town and city in the western world.

They make pretty much every product we buy these days - check your country or origin on everything from Furniture, toys, sports gear, Technology, the list goes on.

What used to be US multinaitonal companys manufacturing in Ireland ect - nearly all those products are now made in china or/and identical replicas of same.

Ever ask yourself why / how there is such a large community of Chinese in Ireland and Europe?

Someone here might have answers to some of the above just putting it out there.
 

The Caped Cod

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According to my granny and her nostradamus / colmcille fetish - the chinese (yellow race) will rule the world.

So there.
Her wha'!? I know I'm going off topic on my own thread, but what the hell is that? I get the Nostradamus/2012 thing but the other lad, and then the combination:confused:
 

The Caped Cod

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"According to my granny and her nostradamus / colmcille fetish - the chinese (yellow race) will rule the world."

There may be something in what your granny says.

Their one baby policy has led to a huge oversupply of young males in China (some would call this a ready made army) - and a huge supply of adopted chinese baby girls around the world.

Their food stores are in every town and city in the western world.

They make pretty much every product we buy these days - check your country or origin on everything from Furniture, toys, sports gear, Technology, the list goes on.

What used to be US multinaitonal companys manufacturing in Ireland ect - nearly all those products are now made in china or/and identical replicas of same.

Ever ask yourself why / how there is such a large community of Chinese in Ireland and Europe?

Someone here might have answers to some of the above just putting it out there.
Indeed there will be a huge gender imbalance in the coming years in China, I started a thread on it somewhere. THis over abundance of young males who will never marry is actually a risk to the Parties stability so it is true that a large war would be a good way of "evening out" the numbers as well as eliminating a potential internal struggle.

We talk alot about energy independance and it's importance to a country and it's economy but as you rightly point out, if China were to stop all exports tomorrow, we'd have alot of empty shelves.

As for Chinese communities worldwide, I'd say it's not that unusual given it's an over populated country. Plus it was a conscious decision on the part of the leadership to import the skills and knowledge necessary to compete with the west by educating their youth there. For example, china produce the majority of the worlds textiles and clothes, yet do not have many designers and so were consigned to be the production base for western companies who did have designers. Now China has sent many fashion students to France to study so that they might form the basis of an indigenous designer culture.
 

Marbellabound

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"As for Chinese communities worldwide, I'd say it's not that unusual given it's an over populated country."

I take your point, although it is an enormous land mass. Still the EU and Ireland in particular have (in theory) very strict policys on emigration from non European Countries. I have know several Aussies and Kiwis that had to return home after a 2 year period. There just seems to be a disproportionate amount of Chinese here compared to other non EU races. I'm open to correction on that, just an observation.

Are we over dependent on Chinese imports in Europe? I personally think we are. Could we in the EU, or even the US, provide for ourselves if we needed to? Are our skills being lost particularly in the manufacturing arena? Why would this situation be allowed to continue? It looks to me like we have over the past 10 years or less allowed imports from China , and our reliance on same to reach quite dangerous proportions.
 

The OD

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The Chinese leadership need a spell in an Abu Ghraib type prison before being publicly executed in a particularly specatular fashion.

When the entire Chinese communist party is dead, perhaps China will have a decent chance of a future, until then, the state crime cartel that is the Chinese communist party continues to whore out it population at cut price rates to the rest of the world.

Saddam didnt have a scratch on the evil being perpetrated by them.
 

Thac0man

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As Chinese leaders have adopted Western dress and the custom of the handshake, I don't see any problem in leaders visiting China observing custom. Certainly there would a greater expectation and less questions if the bows were present in meetings between Western and Japonese leaders. I really think this controversey has grow and been fostered by the culturally ignorant Fox news network.
 

Interista

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Didn't Obama also bow to the Saudi king?

Despite the fact that bowing to anyone is taboo in the Kingdom.
 

Malbekh

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China is never going to be a superpower on the basis of genuinely competing with the States until they build a proper navy. They don't even have an aircraft carrier. This wouldn't be such an issue except the country is effectively landlocked and needs to import vast quantities of resources, particularly in energy.

Under no circumstances is the US going to allow China to compete head-to-head against it in military terms, so I can see the States engineering a conflict or a trade war long before the Chinese get to that stage.

I don't think China will be capable of maintaining its current geopolitical status. I feel it's more likely that it will slowly devolve into a number of powerful coastal provinces with autonomous control.

I also think that while China continues to bolster its conventional arms the US is already taking a lead in the next arms race - space.
 

The Caped Cod

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China is never going to be a superpower on the basis of genuinely competing with the States until they build a proper navy. They don't even have an aircraft carrier. This wouldn't be such an issue except the country is effectively landlocked and needs to import vast quantities of resources, particularly in energy.

Under no circumstances is the US going to allow China to compete head-to-head against it in military terms, so I can see the States engineering a conflict or a trade war long before the Chinese get to that stage.

I don't think China will be capable of maintaining its current geopolitical status. I feel it's more likely that it will slowly devolve into a number of powerful coastal provinces with autonomous control.

I also think that while China continues to bolster its conventional arms the US is already taking a lead in the next arms race - space.
No, doubt about the US trying to keep they're military superiority. It's fast becoming the only card they have to play. But it's worth remembering who loaned them the money to built their fleet. Maybe China will go repo man on a few of the US carriers :)

I'd disagree about China holding it's status. It has been building it's self up internally for decades to get to the point where they could open to the west from a point of strength. Even if they cannot gain over al military dominance, they can still keep the economic if they play their cards right.
 

iartaoiseach

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China is never going to be a superpower on the basis of genuinely competing with the States until they build a proper navy. They don't even have an aircraft carrier. This wouldn't be such an issue except the country is effectively landlocked and needs to import vast quantities of resources, particularly in energy.

Under no circumstances is the US going to allow China to compete head-to-head against it in military terms, so I can see the States engineering a conflict or a trade war long before the Chinese get to that stage.

I don't think China will be capable of maintaining its current geopolitical status. I feel it's more likely that it will slowly devolve into a number of powerful coastal provinces with autonomous control.

I also think that while China continues to bolster its conventional arms the US is already taking a lead in the next arms race - space.
you been reading a bit of George Friedman? he has some interesting theories on China and they are very similar to your post. it's hard to overcome geography.
 

The Caped Cod

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As Chinese leaders have adopted Western dress and the custom of the handshake, I don't see any problem in leaders visiting China observing custom. Certainly there would a greater expectation and less questions if the bows were present in meetings between Western and Japonese leaders. I really think this controversey has grow and been fostered by the culturally ignorant Fox news network.
The handshake is apparently a part of traditional Chinese culture. Check back a few postts for a link. It may have originated there due to foreign intervention, such as the Briitish, but it has been in their culture for a long time.

Here's Obama with the emperor of Japon
I can see a point about cultural respect but what I've never seen any picture of him bowing where the other person bows back, that would be a sign of mutual respect.

Would you think it odd if he bowed on knee to the Queen, or.. no luaghin' now.. kissed the Pope's ring?
 

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