A Political Funk

Polly Ticks

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It's Monday.. why be in a vaguely bad mood in general, when you can be in a specifically political funk?! :)

I have it bad today.

Whether I look at the left or the right side of the political spectrum, I see w*nkers as susceptible to the corrupting influence of power as 'the other side" and people just as determined to control our lives and tell us all how to live.

I look closer, and I find that both left and right endorse the "politics" of the gun.

Emboldened and bewitched by their ideology, they are dangerous, weaponized chimps quite happy to empower their will by force. And if it's not via the gun, it's via the bully pulpit of the media.

And the hypocrisy.. oh the hypocrisy... it'd make you dizzier than a spinningtop with vertigo.

Just some recent examples:

Leftists weeping for Castro, a man that exploited and imprisoned and oppressed his people, especially LGBT folks for whom he advocated aversion therapy.

So-called liberal Clintonites whining about Trump, when their own candidate supported the death penalty, is no stranger to media manipulation, and who played a role in the death and destruction in Syria, Iraq, and Libya. Rightists condemning leftist military violence and bullying, while remaining oblivious to their own. Militarists condemning terrorists...

While there are clearly qualitative differences between the policies of left and right, when it comes to matters of important underlying principles --pacifism, rejection of death penalty (thinking of the US in particular here and the Clintonites recent weeping), rejecting the "bully pulpit" style of discourse-- they are not just as bad as each other.. they are worse than each other.

Days like this, I feel like there is nothing for me on the left or the right.. nor indeed in the middle (which endorses the violence, hypocrisy and bullying by not standing up to it)..

It seems that deciding matters 'politically' is a matter of who can muster the most hypocrites behind their cause, who can gather the most weapons, and who controls the media. Principles? Don't make laugh.. power and dominance is what all these tyrants on left and right seek.

Anybody else feel like this sometimes, or do I just need a cup of coffee? :D
 


Iarmuid

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Sep 12, 2010
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It's Monday.. why be in a vaguely bad mood in general, when you can be in a specifically political funk?! :)

I have it bad today.

Whether I look at the left or the right side of the political spectrum, I see w*nkers as susceptible to the corrupting influence of power as 'the other side" and people just as determined to control our lives and tell us all how to live.

I look closer, and I find that both left and right endorse the "politics" of the gun.

Emboldened and bewitched by their ideology, they are dangerous, weaponized chimps quite happy to empower their will by force. And if it's not via the gun, it's via the bully pulpit of the media.

And the hypocrisy.. oh the hypocrisy... it'd make you dizzier than a spinningtop with vertigo.

Just some recent examples:

Leftists weeping for Castro, a man that exploited and imprisoned and oppressed his people, especially LGBT folks for whom he advocated aversion therapy.

So-called liberal Clintonites whining about Trump, when their own candidate supported the death penalty, is no stranger to media manipulation, and who played a role in the death and destruction in Syria, Iraq, and Libya. Rightists condemning leftist military violence and bullying, while remaining oblivious to their own. Militarists condemning terrorists...

While there are clearly qualitative differences between the policies of left and right, when it comes to matters of important underlying principles --pacifism, rejection of death penalty (thinking of the US in particular here and the Clintonites recent weeping), rejecting the "bully pulpit" style of discourse-- they are not just as bad as each other.. they are worse than each other.

Days like this, I feel like there is nothing for me on the left or the right.. nor indeed in the middle (which endorses the violence, hypocrisy and bullying by not standing up to it)..

It seems that deciding matters 'politically' is a matter of who can muster the most hypocrites behind their cause, who can gather the most weapons, and who controls the media. Principles? Don't make laugh.. power and dominance is what all these tyrants on left and right seek.

Anybody else feel like this sometimes, or do I just need a cup of coffee? :D
Has it ever been any different?

Sounds like the grieving stage in a case of lost naivety - silver lining acceptance can only be around the corner ;-).
 

im axeled

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Nov 24, 2010
Messages
29,289
It's Monday.. why be in a vaguely bad mood in general, when you can be in a specifically political funk?! :)

I have it bad today.

Whether I look at the left or the right side of the political spectrum, I see w*nkers as susceptible to the corrupting influence of power as 'the other side" and people just as determined to control our lives and tell us all how to live.

I look closer, and I find that both left and right endorse the "politics" of the gun.

Emboldened and bewitched by their ideology, they are dangerous, weaponized chimps quite happy to empower their will by force. And if it's not via the gun, it's via the bully pulpit of the media.

And the hypocrisy.. oh the hypocrisy... it'd make you dizzier than a spinningtop with vertigo.

Just some recent examples:

Leftists weeping for Castro, a man that exploited and imprisoned and oppressed his people, especially LGBT folks for whom he advocated aversion therapy.

So-called liberal Clintonites whining about Trump, when their own candidate supported the death penalty, is no stranger to media manipulation, and who played a role in the death and destruction in Syria, Iraq, and Libya. Rightists condemning leftist military violence and bullying, while remaining oblivious to their own. Militarists condemning terrorists...

While there are clearly qualitative differences between the policies of left and right, when it comes to matters of important underlying principles --pacifism, rejection of death penalty (thinking of the US in particular here and the Clintonites recent weeping), rejecting the "bully pulpit" style of discourse-- they are not just as bad as each other.. they are worse than each other.

Days like this, I feel like there is nothing for me on the left or the right.. nor indeed in the middle (which endorses the violence, hypocrisy and bullying by not standing up to it)..

It seems that deciding matters 'politically' is a matter of who can muster the most hypocrites behind their cause, who can gather the most weapons, and who controls the media. Principles? Don't make laugh.. power and dominance is what all these tyrants on left and right seek.

Anybody else feel like this sometimes, or do I just need a cup of coffee? :D
its five o clock somewhere
 

Polly Ticks

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Has it ever been any different?

Sounds like the grieving stage in a case of lost naivety - silver lining acceptance can only be around the corner ;-).
No. But we have managed to criminalize behaviours that were once commonplace.

Agree it does sound like a lost naivety.. but it's not. It's about first principles of pacifism and open discourse.

It could also be said that the argument that "this is how it is" is an argument that is a weak compromise with the current situation.

We have managed to criminalize violence and harassment.. but only for the individual..

Seems to me that the next logical step is to criminalize the violence and harassment perpetrated by the state and various political actors... not throw our hands up in the air and say "well that's just the way it is," a position that is (IMO) naive,uncritical, and accepting to the point of hopelessness.
 

im axeled

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putin jhas his own media for propaganda against the eu, so the eu got their own, un the us the dems have a massive media propaganda unit, which is supporting the rebels in appollo, is against them in mosul, it had two opponents in the recent u.s. election, one of their own sanders and the opposition trump, here the trousering party ha one against the shinners and the anti iw crowd, the f.failures has one against the shinners and the trousering party, the lieabout/stickie/dissos has one against the shinners, rte has one against everyone bar the lieabout/stickie/dissos
 

Iarmuid

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No. But we have managed to criminalize behaviours that were once commonplace.

Agree it does sound like a lost naivety.. but it's not. It's about first principles of pacifism and open discourse.

It could also be said that the argument that "this is how it is" is an argument that is a weak compromise with the current situation.

We have managed to criminalize violence and harassment.. but only for the individual..

Seems to me that the next logical step is to criminalize the violence and harassment perpetrated by the state and various political actors... not throw our hands up in the air and say "well that's just the way it is," a position that is (IMO) naive,uncritical, and accepting to the point of hopelessness.
hmmmm quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
 
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Polly Ticks

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hmmmm quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
One of the most imp q's in politics..

Not catching quite how you meant it in this context though. (Two coffees in and I'm still as dopey as I was I started the thread :D )
 

milipod

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One of the most imp q's in politics..

Not catching quite how you meant it in this context though. (Two coffees in and I'm still as dopey as I was I started the thread :D )
Make them Irish.
 

Accidental sock

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hmmmm quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Today I learned there's no appropriate Latin translation for 'Batman'


(Speculator doesn't cut it)
 

Iarmuid

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One of the most imp q's in politics..

Not catching quite how you meant it in this context though. (Two coffees in and I'm still as dopey as I was I started the thread :D )
In a world of multi polar nation states, the actors to some degree police themselves (realities of power not withstanding), all though not perfect the competing actors place checks and balances on each other, the system in this way accounts and hopefully mitigates more rather than less some of the uglier tendencies in human nature. Replacing this with a system [as you suggested in your earlier post] which would give a body the power to compel and punish all nation state actors might be problematic in the context mentioned earlier.
 
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Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

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Might is always right in this context and will forever be...:mad:
 

Sister Mercedes

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Anyone who is in a position of power for an extended period of time seems to succumb to hubris and corruption. Inevitably they all end up disappointing, unless they're removed before they have the chance. Term limits is one attempt to send them packing before they go "off".
 

Polly Ticks

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In a world of multi polar nation states, the actors to some degree policy themselves (realities of power not withstanding), all though not perfect the competing actors place checks and balances on each other, the system in this way accounts and hopefully mitigates more rather than less some of the uglier tendencies in human nature. Replacing this with a system [as you suggested in your earlier post] which would give a body the power to compel and punish all nation state actors might be problematic in the context mentioned earlier.
Ah, gotcha. Well put. Yes, I agree.. that is the danger.

Here's an example of where I believe such a body could be useful in modern conflicts: Nation states have a monopoly on battlefield visibility. We need a system of drones maintained by an independent organization set it up to monitor and observe the behaviour of all military actors in the air and on the ground. These drones could stream data that can a) be made public and b) be used as evidence to prosecute those that commit war crimes. Making it public would bring transparency to war and make people more conscious of what is being done in their name. Lack of evidence hampers war crimes investigations.

Undermining all this is the fact that competing nation states would never allow such a system to come into place.

So, in that sense, while it does offer a kind of balance, the nation state is an obstacle to proper system of checks and balances.
 

Iarmuid

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Ah, gotcha. Well put. Yes, I agree.. that is the danger.

Here's an example of where I believe such a body could be useful in modern conflicts: Nation states have a monopoly on battlefield visibility. We need a system of drones maintained by an independent organization set it up to monitor and observe the behaviour of all military actors in the air and on the ground. These drones could stream data that can a) be made public and b) be used as evidence to prosecute those that commit war crimes. Making it public would bring transparency to war and make people more conscious of what is being done in their name. Lack of evidence hampers war crimes investigations.

Undermining all this is the fact that competing nation states would never allow such a system to come into place.

So, in that sense, while it does offer a kind of balance, the nation state is an obstacle to proper system of checks and balances.
Thanks Polly. Suffice to say I would have to be convinced and convinced from a place of deep and hardened scepticism :D .
 


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