A question about Anglo Irish Bank.

former wesleyan

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Being a simple soul, there's something I don't understand about Anglo and the law. It is now patently clear that the prospectus issued by Anglo at it's last AGM was , let's say "creative " !! Given that people either buy, hold or sell based on the figures given out at AGM's ( among other indicators of course ) is this not a simple case of mis-selling or issuing fraudulent data ? And are there not penalties for this kind of thing ? And if there are , why has no-one taken a case ?
 


upyaboya

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Being a simple soul, there's something I don't understand about Anglo and the law. It is now patently clear that the prospectus issued by Anglo at it's last AGM was , let's say "creative " !! Given that people either buy, hold or sell based on the figures given out at AGM's ( among other indicators of course ) is this not a simple case of mis-selling or issuing fraudulent data ? And are there not penalties for this kind of thing ? And if there are , why has no-one taken a case ?
Good point, would most likely be a misrepresentation!!! However to bring a case against them would involve a solicitor and as there is nobody to pay them and the financial strain on the solicitor in the event of losing the case would be massive and therefore no solicitor will voluntarily take the case!!!
 

Man or Mouse

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Being a simple soul, there's something I don't understand about Anglo and the law. It is now patently clear that the prospectus issued by Anglo at it's last AGM was , let's say "creative " !! Given that people either buy, hold or sell based on the figures given out at AGM's ( among other indicators of course ) is this not a simple case of mis-selling or issuing fraudulent data ? And are there not penalties for this kind of thing ? And if there are , why has no-one taken a case ?
The cynic in me tends towards the simple answer: Because this is the Ireland of Waffle Fianna Fail
 

hammer

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Accounts were falsified. Fraud squad & DOCE dont need any further evidence.

"Fair play to you Willie"

No convictions will ensure. This is a banana republic.

BTW great to see Jim Flavin get off scott free !!!!
 

Capt Blah

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Accounts were falsified. Fraud squad & DOCE dont need any further evidence.

"Fair play to you Willie"

No convictions will ensure. This is a banana republic.
I would be gobsmacked if the gards do anything -- they are little more now than security guards for the government.

As for a civil action - I am surprised that this hasn't happened yet. Quite a number of people have a solicitor in the family who could pursue such a course without much cost. Unless they lose, in which case they'll lose their house. Maybe that's why petunia
 

former wesleyan

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Good point, would most likely be a misrepresentation!!! However to bring a case against them would involve a solicitor and as there is nobody to pay them and the financial strain on the solicitor in the event of losing the case would be massive and therefore no solicitor will voluntarily take the case!!!
But we are assured by everyone from the Garda Commissioner to the Government that every sinue is being strained to investigate wrong doing and to be fair (it's not easy ) the password saga shows some kind of effort is being made. My bewilderment is caused by the fact that this conjob is so obvious that the actual labyrinthine financial doings aren't neccessary for a case. Or am I wrong ?
On your point about a solicitor being unwilling to work pro bono, surely some of the putative parties to the next government should be asked if they intend to empower the Irish people by passing laws to enable class action suits to be brought ?
 

Oldira1

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Wonder will Sean Quinn do anything? Presumably he invested in Anglo's shares based on their accounts and more? If so I wonder if a case against the auditors is being prepared? They could take a 3 billion hit without batting an eyelid.
 

hammer

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Why are the shareholders not suing ?

The accounts were falsified. They could be entitled to all monies lost.

Can we ask the AG for his advice :)
 

Catalpa

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Being a simple soul, there's something I don't understand about Anglo and the law. It is now patently clear that the prospectus issued by Anglo at it's last AGM was , let's say "creative " !! Given that people either buy, hold or sell based on the figures given out at AGM's ( among other indicators of course ) is this not a simple case of mis-selling or issuing fraudulent data ? And are there not penalties for this kind of thing ? And if there are , why has no-one taken a case ?
And are there not penalties for this kind of thing ?

Not here I'm afraid....:?
 

commonman

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does any one no how much them name plates are worth . like down the road they might worth a few punts then
 

Fides

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In the US there would be a shareholder class action. Here it would be a waste of time, no one ever gets convicted for breaking Comapnaies Act regulations. Lending money to the golden circle without recourse to buy shares in the company and then not disclosing it pretty much breaches the 1963 Companies Act.
 

hammer

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Worth more than the Bank :) :)

Another 1,300 staff on the live register. "Fair play to you Willie"

What does Seanie think about that then :( Seemed to have an opinion on everything else at one stage !!!!
 

hammer

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In the US there would be a shareholder class action. Here it would be a waste of time, no one ever gets convicted for breaking Comapnaies Act regulations. Lending money to the golden circle without recourse to buy shares in the company and then not disclosing it pretty much breaches the 1963 Companies Act.
Accounts were falsified :(

If that doesn`t result in a conviction there is no point in having a Companys Act :)
 

karldaly

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Being a simple soul, there's something I don't understand about Anglo and the law. It is now patently clear that the prospectus issued by Anglo at it's last AGM was , let's say "creative " !! Given that people either buy, hold or sell based on the figures given out at AGM's ( among other indicators of course ) is this not a simple case of mis-selling or issuing fraudulent data ? And are there not penalties for this kind of thing ? And if there are , why has no-one taken a case ?
.
BROKEN TRUST – THE FACTS

FIDUCIARY DUTY - Let's build a better Ireland, then we can hand on something better than this mess.
.
.
 

hammer

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Its all a big cover up.

In my opinion the regulator knew. He was bought off. Lets interview him :)
Not a chance. Would he tell the truth ? Hopefully. He is our "patsy"
 

Doodah

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Why are the shareholders not suing ?

The accounts were falsified. They could be entitled to all monies lost.

Can we ask the AG for his advice :)
There is an obvious opportunity to convict Anglo of fraud.
The fraud would break the contract of the blanket banking guarantee.
Anglo's debt would be separated from the sovereign debt.
The bank could then be liquidated with bondholders invited to "restructure". The markets would respond to a "default" in an EU bank by either panicking because the illegal activities of a bank resulted in bondholder liability for it's debts, or alternatively they would accept, without too much fuss, that justice was being done and was being seen to be done in relation to illegal activity.
In the event of such a scenario -what would the savings to the State amount to - 35 billion euro?

This is the 6th time on this site I have proposed this scenario and no-one has questioned it's feasibility.
I'd appreciate if someone could enlighten me as to how the above scenario cannot happen.
 

Freedom front

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There is an obvious opportunity to convict Anglo of fraud.
The fraud would break the contract of the blanket banking guarantee.
Anglo's debt would be separated from the sovereign debt.
The bank could then be liquidated with bondholders invited to "restructure". The markets would respond to a "default" in an EU bank by either panicking because the illegal activities of a bank resulted in bondholder liability for it's debts, or alternatively they would accept, without too much fuss, that justice was being done and was being seen to be done in relation to illegal activity.
In the event of such a scenario -what would the savings to the State amount to - 35 billion euro?

This is the 6th time on this site I have proposed this scenario and no-one has questioned it's feasibility.
I'd appreciate if someone could enlighten me as to how the above scenario cannot happen.

The 35 billion is all but gone, allot of the bond's have been paid up as per DOF September deal.

The next big issue is the Anglo Cover up,

Which will implicate the Leadership of Fianna Fail , Senior Public Service and unfortunately the Police investigation - It is not conceivable or possible that after 2 years of Garda investigation that there is no conclusion or charges brought against the people involved.
 

toetoe

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There were 20 Anglo executives at the famous dinner Cowan attended prior to the collapse.I would suggest that a reward be posted to induce one of these people to tell what happened that night.There must have been one public spirited banker among then or am I being naive .If the fund got going it could be run by say V Browne to target fruitful areas of Anglo.
 

upyaboya

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But we are assured by everyone from the Garda Commissioner to the Government that every sinue is being strained to investigate wrong doing and to be fair (it's not easy ) the password saga shows some kind of effort is being made. My bewilderment is caused by the fact that this conjob is so obvious that the actual labyrinthine financial doings aren't neccessary for a case. Or am I wrong ?
On your point about a solicitor being unwilling to work pro bono, surely some of the putative parties to the next government should be asked if they intend to empower the Irish people by passing laws to enable class action suits to be brought ?
Its all a cover up, they have lived in each others pockets for years and even though the Government bailed them out and are now supposedly on the side of the taxpayer who is footing the bill for the failings of Anglo, it was the government who appointed rhe Financial Regulstor and the Government who rgulated the bank and exposing the wrongdoings would cause irrepairable damage to the Government, thus the reason for a cover up, thats my opinion anyway!!!
 

Doodah

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The 35 billion is all but gone, allot of the bond's have been paid up as per DOF September deal.

The next big issue is the Anglo Cover up,

Which will implicate the Leadership of Fianna Fail , Senior Public Service and unfortunately the Police investigation - It is not conceivable or possible that after 2 years of Garda investigation that there is no conclusion or charges brought against the people involved.
Thanks for that.
Then the 35 billion payment or whatever the exact figure was, probably initiated both the bail-out procedure and downfall of FF, because the Government, as guarantor, effectively made this payment.
Were the payments made in "promissory notes"?
If so, in the event of proven fraud by Anglo, are these IOUs not compromised?
 


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