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A radical proposal: let counties opt out of any abortion legislation.

Bleu Poppy

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Before some of the more conventionally minded posters ridicule my suggestion have a think about this for a moment. Instead of setting legislation nationally that applies to every part of the country, why not allow individual counties to opt out? National government could set the framework that counties would be free to legislate within.

Ireland is divided between more conservative rural counties, such as Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Roscomon etc with a more liberal leaning population in the likes of Dublin, Kildare and Meath. Why should one block dominate the other to such a large extent?

Why should we not permit opt outs in some areas of legislation? Switzerlands cantons, many of which are smaller than some Irish counties have a great deal of local autonomy and can enact their own legislation, I see no reason why we could not make reforms that permit greater local freedom when it comes to legislation in many areas, abortion of which would be a prime example.
Tell me this- would you have a passport system in place? To prevent a woman from Mayo, presenting at the Regional [Maternity] Hospital in Galway, from obtaining the services she seeks because of the county that she's living in.

What would happen, say, if a Dublin Jacqueline was holidaying in a conservative county where there was a full maternity service and had need of a termination to save her life? Could her liberal views of her place of residence take precedence over the values and morés of the culchies?

I'm sorry, for all its faults, we live in a unitary democracy. Not a federalised one, such as in the U.S., Germany, or Switzerland. One country, one law.
 


bye bye mubarak

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So if you happen to become pregnant and develop cancer, you may not get pain relief depending on in Drogeda, depending whether you come from louth or meath. I have a radical proposal, let the individual decide- if you wish to avail of abortion you can, but if your religion persuades you not to, that's your choice. My god what a revelation, what a stroke of genius. It could even be described as democratic, giving the decision to the coupls involved, who might want to even not risk the life of the mother, especially when the medical advice is that, the baby will not live outside the womb. But some might want to take the risk. We could call it a woman's right to choose - a radical proposal indeed.
 

The Herren

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Say I live in Wexford which votes against the killing of the unborn and therefore is not obliged to provide slaughterhouses in that county. Say I want to have my unborn child killed do I have an automatic right to travel to say Dublin which has voted to provide killing houses or can Wexford Law stop me? Would this be a type of x case all over again?
 

Mr. Bumble

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Say I live in Wexford which votes against the killing of the unborn and therefore is not obliged to provide slaughterhouses in that county. Say I want to have my unborn child killed do I have an automatic right to travel to say Dublin which has voted to provide killing houses or can Wexford Law stop me? Would this be a type of x case all over again?
Every woman crossing county bounds would be subject to a pregnancy test. Simples.
 

QuizMaster

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But now hold on a minute. What about a county the likes of Wicklow?
Bray is really just an overspill of Dublin and Greystones is full of protestants. They'll be wanting to kill babies. But over the hills in Blessington and Baltinglass they'll have no truck with it. Maybe each town should be allowed to opt out of its county's policy? And why not sure.
 

Bill

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...so Savita would die in Letterkenny? Don't just zoo this thread, put it in a sack with a brick and throw it in the canal.
I recommend you beat it with a stick before you throw it in the river.
 

pragmaticapproach

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I wasn't aware that Ireland had become a federal or devolved entity?....
Perhaps it should move in that direction. People in the likes of Dublin and Kildare have little in common with people from the likes of Donegal and Tipperary.
 

QuizMaster

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Perhaps it should move in that direction. People in the likes of Dublin and Kildare have little in common with people from the likes of Donegal and Tipperary.
Hey man I haven't got much in common with my own next door neighbours. We're all different. The best plan would be for each person to decide on their own about abortion and various other issues. It's called freedom of choice.
 

pragmaticapproach

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Tell me this- would you have a passport system in place? To prevent a woman from Mayo, presenting at the Regional [Maternity] Hospital in Galway, from obtaining the services she seeks because of the county that she's living in.

What would happen, say, if a Dublin Jacqueline was holidaying in a conservative county where there was a full maternity service and had need of a termination to save her life? Could her liberal views of her place of residence take precedence over the values and morés of the culchies?

I'm sorry, for all its faults, we live in a unitary democracy. Not a federalised one, such as in the U.S., Germany, or Switzerland. One country, one law.
Your county of residence would be irrelevant, you would have the freedom to travel to another county for treatment not permitted in your own. The only power counties would have, would be to forbid the practice in their locality. The extent of prosecution for bylaw violation would be another issue but the law would only apply within county bounds.
 

pragmaticapproach

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Hey man I haven't got much in common with my own next door neighbours. We're all different. The best plan would be for each person to decide on their own about abortion and various other issues. It's called freedom of choice.
There seems to be a much higher concentration of a more conservative worldview in some counties compared to others.
 

QuizMaster

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Your county of residence would be irrelevant, you would have the freedom to travel to another county for treatment not permitted in your own. The only power counties would have, would be to forbid the practice in their locality. The extent of prosecution for bylaw violation would be another issue but the law would only apply within county bounds.
Ok seriously now, are you taking the p1ss? Please tell me you're not really this stupid.
In the case of Savita, she was not really in any shape to be moved to another hospital. Either we care about women's health or we don't. Let's care about women's health and none of this pr1cking around. Call a halt to this wind-up. You've had your laugh.
 

pragmaticapproach

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Say I live in Wexford which votes against the killing of the unborn and therefore is not obliged to provide slaughterhouses in that county. Say I want to have my unborn child killed do I have an automatic right to travel to say Dublin which has voted to provide killing houses or can Wexford Law stop me? Would this be a type of x case all over again?
You would have the freedom to travel, counties would not have the power to prevent you from travelling.
 

QuizMaster

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There seems to be a much higher concentration of a more conservative worldview in some counties compared to others.
What's that got to do with anything? You don't judge me by the county I live in. You don't know me. Respect my rights. I'm getting a bit tired of your jolly jape. Give it up.
 

pragmaticapproach

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Ok seriously now, are you taking the p1ss? Please tell me you're not really this stupid.
In the case of Savita, she was not really in any shape to be moved to another hospital. Either we care about women's health or we don't. Let's care about women's health and none of this pr1cking around. Call a halt to this wind-up. You've had your laugh.
My suggestion would minimise any collateral damage.
 

pragmaticapproach

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What's that got to do with anything? You don't judge me by the county I live in. You don't know me. Respect my rights. I'm getting a bit tired of your jolly jape. Give it up.
Its called freedom of speech. Dont like it? then put me on ignore.
 

pragmaticapproach

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No it wouldn't. It would cause damage for no good reason.
The only way to limit damage is to resepect people's rights and provide healthcare for women.
If the federal approach had been taken since the beginning of the state, we would have saved ourselves alot of grief over the years.
Im deadly serious and in no way trying to take the p1ss.
 

neiphin

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why not allow individual counties to opt out? .
a good spit would cover the likes of longford , offoly or carlow
this is a lunacy tread if ever there was one
 

QuizMaster

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If the federal approach had been taken since the beginning of the state, we would have saved ourselves alot of grief over the years.
Im deadly serious and in no way trying to take the p1ss.
Ok someone, am I the only one not in on the joke?
This man or woman is proposing to provide proper healthcare to women in some counties and not others. Simple question: why not all? Does he or she hate women or something? Please someone, I'm normally an intelligent person but I'm missing something here. Not you Pragmatic. Someone else please tell me what's going on.
 

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