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A Short History of Modern Europe

yosef shompeter

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,819
Cameron and Farage tell EU: Brexit vote is ALL your fault after ignoring migrant fears | Politics | News | Daily Express

Also very good is ZeroHedge quoting the Financial Times:
The Accusations Begin: David Cameron Blames Brexit On Merkel And EU "Immigration Failure" | Zero Hedge


The Brexit vote is history, and so is David Cameron's reign as Britain's prime minister whose gamble to allow an EU referendum backfired spectacularly. And today, in what Bloomberg earlier dubbed his "last summer" Cameron had the unpleasant task of telling his Eurocrat peers during what is hist last Brussels summit why he failed. Only he didn't and instead, as the FT writes, Cameron flipped the tables and told European leaders he lost the EU referendum because they failed to address public concerns over immigration, as tensions rose ahead of looming Brexit negotiations.

The British prime minister said at his final summit in Brussels on Tuesday that fears of mass immigration were “a driving factor” behind the vote and free movement would have to be addressed in Brexit talks. While he did not call her out by name, Cameron was effectively blaming Angela Merkel, whose overly accepting immigration policy in 2015 unleashed a historic refugee wave which ultimately ended up being the deciding factor behind the referendum outcome.


Shompeter's take on Modern European History:
1) Tunisian fruit seller in protest over not having his peddler's licence extended sets himself ablaze and starts the Arab Spring. This sparks off off revolutions in Maghreb, Mesopotamia and the Gulf
2)Putin, Iran, Saudi Arabia and US go bashing the "other side" in Syria. Immense suffering in a long, drawn-out war.
3)Syrians (assisted by well-meaning US techie millionaires) start exodus march on Europe
4)Angela Merkel in a fit of "faiblesse" not only opens the gates but also issues an invite in obeiisance to her background as pastor's daughter.
5)When the refugees start misbehaving in the congregation -- puttin their hands up lady's skirts and much much worse, she quickly reverses policy. Credibility is lost as she has to eat crow in front of Victor Orban and the other eastern EU states who had been castigated as racist and such-like for not accepting migrants.
6) In order to stem the flow she agrees in principle -- and under conditions -- to allow 79 Million Turks visa-free access to the European Union (in exchange for halting ca. one, two million migrants
7) UKIP's Nigel Farage makes hay out of this decision and sways the referendum vote his way.


Howls of scorn from the readership:"How could Shompeter come out with such a gross over-simplification of what really happened. In any case, It's the EU migrants who are causing the friction in the UK, the Syrians can't get in."

And my reply is that I'm a bit puzzled myself. My experience of EU workers from Poland, Hungary etc is overall very positive. The only "flies on the ointment would be the East European version of "travellers" if you would pardon the descent into racism. But we're all racist now.
Except for a few isolated vocal eccentrics.

It is a cause of puzzlement to me that the Brits would get their backs up over the waves of Polish and east European who come to work. My experience is that they are very hard working, honest, clean. Now the parallel society of fundamentalist Islam is another story. The very presence of a concentration of 5,000--> 10,000 migrants holing out in the "Jungle" of Calais would be a cause a psychological worry to any Brit --they ain't camped out there for nothing, and it's grist to the mill for the boulevard press who make much of their bread and butter over immigration stories.

Nevertheless in the Times article Cameron seems to include the east european migration in the reason for his having lost the Brexit referendum.

Last point I would like to make. If a Tunisian fruit-vendor's suicide can result in widespread turmoil in the Arab world, the deployment of chemcial weapons against civilians, mass exodus from the Middle East and European polite salon-society turned upside down by trying not to be racist...and the split up of the European Union, well the world sure has got a lot smaller.
 


sondagefaux

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
15,682
Cameron and Farage tell EU: Brexit vote is ALL your fault after ignoring migrant fears | Politics | News | Daily Express

Also very good is ZeroHedge quoting the Financial Times:
The Accusations Begin: David Cameron Blames Brexit On Merkel And EU "Immigration Failure" | Zero Hedge






Shompeter's take on Modern European History:
1) Tunisian fruit seller in protest over not having his peddler's licence extended sets himself ablaze and starts the Arab Spring. This sparks off off revolutions in Maghreb, Mesopotamia and the Gulf
2)Putin, Iran, Saudi Arabia and US go bashing the "other side" in Syria. Immense suffering in a long, drawn-out war.
3)Syrians (assisted by well-meaning US techie millionaires) start exodus march on Europe
4)Angela Merkel in a fit of "faiblesse" not only opens the gates but also issues an invite in obeiisance to her background as pastor's daughter.
5)When the refugees start misbehaving in the congregation -- puttin their hands up lady's skirts and much much worse, she quickly reverses policy. Credibility is lost as she has to eat crow in front of Victor Orban and the other eastern EU states who had been castigated as racist and such-like for not accepting migrants.
6) In order to stem the flow she agrees in principle -- and under conditions -- to allow 79 Million Turks visa-free access to the European Union (in exchange for halting ca. one, two million migrants
7) UKIP's Nigel Farage makes hay out of this decision and sways the referendum vote his way.


Howls of scorn from the readership:"How could Shompeter come out with such a gross over-simplification of what really happened. In any case, It's the EU migrants who are causing the friction in the UK, the Syrians can't get in."

And my reply is that I'm a bit puzzled myself. My experience of EU workers from Poland, Hungary etc is overall very positive. The only "flies on the ointment would be the East European version of "travellers" if you would pardon the descent into racism. But we're all racist now.
Except for a few isolated vocal eccentrics.

It is a cause of puzzlement to me that the Brits would get their backs up over the waves of Polish and east European who come to work. My experience is that they are very hard working, honest, clean. Now the parallel society of fundamentalist Islam is another story. The very presence of a concentration of 5,000--> 10,000 migrants holing out in the "Jungle" of Calais would be a cause a psychological worry to any Brit --they ain't camped out there for nothing, and it's grist to the mill for the boulevard press who make much of their bread and butter over immigration stories.

Nevertheless in the Times article Cameron seems to include the east european migration in the reason for his having lost the Brexit referendum.

Last point I would like to make. If a Tunisian fruit-vendor's suicide can result in widespread turmoil in the Arab world, the deployment of chemcial weapons against civilians, mass exodus from the Middle East and European polite salon-society turned upside down by trying not to be racist...and the split up of the European Union, well the world sure has got a lot smaller.
Something about fruit?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,090
Ah bless, Dave pointing the finger at some one else, oh yes, johnny foreigner, it's their fault. What a spineless twat he really is and history will say 'nope, this one is all on you'.
 

corporal punishment

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
2,890
Why has the summer of 1914 just popped into my head. Hopefully not a portent of things to come.
 

yosef shompeter

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Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,819
Why has the summer of 1914 just popped into my head. Hopefully not a portent of things to come.
History has its parallels... doesn't usually repeat itself exactly.
How the anarchist Gallo Principe managed to set a train of events that led to World War One (which led to World War Two) is not without its irony. But you could say that the cause a collapse like this lies in the structure in place. What I mean is one person may set a train of dominoes to collapse, but they were aligned in such a manner that all it took was the first one to collapse on the next and then they all fall down. Similarly like the first snowflake in the avalanche.
If the EU can weather this (and it will be difficult) it will emerge much stronger because they are not all set up in domino formation as in World War 1. But the way things are going... it seems that both Gove and May want to drag out the Brexit procedure as long as it suits them -- Article 50 won't be invoked by the end of this year.... things are shaping up to look like a poisonous divorce. -- Which is a pity. If the Brits can't hack it, what's the use in blaming them?
 

LeopoldLanthanum

Active member
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
194
(...)
But we're all racist now. (...)

Narcissism is often associated with its many external manifestations, including attention seeking, grandstanding, superficial charm, lack of reliability, boundary violation, manipulation, and many other traits.

However, not all narcissists are openly grandiose and outwardly intrusive. Various researchers and authors have written about the introverted narcissist, variously identified as the covert narcissist, the hypersensitive narcissist, the closet narcissist, and the vulnerable narcissist (1)(2)(3)(4). This subtype of narcissism is more hidden, and yet can carry the same self-conceit and negative contagion as their extroverted counterpart.

It’s important to point out that many introverts are not narcissistic. The ones who are, however, may have a way of influencing others around them to feel off-balance and/or insecure.


What both extrovert and introvert narcissists have in common is their employment of an outer veneer of superiority, to disguise their inner sense of vulnerability. While the extroverted narcissist will say, in so many ways, that “I’m better than you”, the introverted narcissist will strongly hint at it.*
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/communication-success/201601/7-signs-covert-introvert-narcissist
 

yosef shompeter

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,819
Is it my fault that I was born so beautiful?
It's sometimes hard to tell in an anonymous forum what a writer is on about.
Are you a psychologist or amateur psychologist?
Did you post to the wrong thread or forum? By mistake or otherwise?
Have you some criticism with one of the posts?

more clarification needed.


back to the Brexit topic:
I was kind of anxious starting this thread as it might be simply plowing over old ground that was already covered much better in some other thread. But there's one point that I'd like to drive home and that's the realization that the EU is much more fragile than people realized. That's it's an aspirational undertaking. (so much easier to haul up the drawbridge of Mé Féinism -- and in the short, medium term this strategy might be much better at cutting costs, increasing effiiciency etc., etc.)
Keeping the EU on the road means that each country has to pay a contribution, accept sacrifices... the trouble is that these are spread kind of unevenly. For example, there's the sanctions against Russia for it's Ukraine campaign hits eastern Europe mostly.... or the example of Greece and Italy who play host to all these visitors from the south who claim to have got a bum rap and who are broke.
We in Ireland on the other hand get all this rain and stormy weather... so the advantages and disadvantages should all even themselves out.
:-(

As for organizing threads on Brexit, I don't think I've come across a topic like this that has so many different sides to it, each one pressing to be dealt with and all in such a short space of time.
items such as the back-stabbery in the conservative party, the turmoil and upheaval in the Labour party. The delay tactics with regard to signing Article 50, the question of having an amicable or a messy divorce, the effect that Brexit will have on Ireland, Britain, Each of its main EU trading partners, the EU as a whole and whose Nexit? and that's just scratching the surface of my brain. I'm sure there are other important topics.
Well the main point: The EU is more vulnerable than we thought -- and people and countries will have to put their shoulder to the wheel to keep it together
Course in the negotiations if Britain is out to maximize it's position... thems the rules eveyone else will follow.
So a messy divorce?
 
Last edited:

yosef shompeter

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,819
It's intriguing how the contours are forming for the coming Brexit divorce case.
It would seem that Angela Merkel would like an amicable divorce... Am I cynical in pointing out that Germany and in particular the german Auto industry has a massive export surplus with the UK.
On the other hand Nissan and other foreign companies were using Britain as a base to export to other EU countries. How will this pan out in the negotiations.
I think its in the interests of most countries to have an amicable separation.
But the burden won't fall evenly or fairly.
 


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