A Tale of Two Countries.... How the Media Deal with Scandalous Allegations in Britain and Ireland

Shpake

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/05/ted-heath-would-have-been-questioned-over-seven-abuse-claims-police-say

"Ted Heath would have been questioned over abuse claims, police say
Investigators say former PM would have been interviewed about claims he sexually abused children if he were still alive"
Of course I was shocked that a former British Prime Minister (a life-long bachelor) was not above suspicion in this little matter above.
I ask myself, would something similar be aired on the Irish media? Even after the alleged suspect was twenty years dead?
I confess to having some admiration for the openness displayed across the water... compared with this "trembling sod".
But then Edward Heath is one of "Yesterday's Men". Water under the bridge now.

And in Ireland once the funeral happens, well we all come out sobbing and singing the praises of the recently deceased.
Well they say: Don't speak ill of the dead. They are'nt around to defend themselves.
 


Wascurito

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The pattern I'm noticing in the UK is that high-ranking folks are allowed to live their life to the full and then to shuffle off this mortal coil before their (sometimes alleged) child-raping exploits are made public.
 
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Strawberry

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Well they say: Don't speak ill of the dead. They are'nt around to defend themselves.
They're right. Another thing "they" say is: Innocent till proven guilty. And they're right there too.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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I'd always very suspicious of allegations concerning things supposed to have happened several decades ago.

There needs to be a Statute of Limitations, such as there is in most countries, regarding criminal offences.
 

parentheses

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There's been lots of people, including clergy, convicted for abuses that happened decades ago in Ireland.

In fact it seems more likely to happen in Ireland than in England IMO.
 

Northsideman

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There's been lots of people, including clergy, convicted for abuses that happened decades ago in Ireland.

In fact it seems more likely to happen in Ireland than in England IMO.
Freemasons have a lot of power.
 

eoghanacht

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They're right. Another thing "they" say is: Innocent till proven guilty. And they're right there too.
So we shouldn't speak ill of Saville?


He just another innocent whose name has been besmirched, Eh?
 

eoghanacht

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I hear they're renaming the sex offenders roll to the queens honours list.

Maggie knew...
 

Strawberry

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So we shouldn't speak ill of Saville?


He just another innocent whose name has been besmirched, Eh?
Jimmy Saville is definitely the reason why the British have gone a bit mad accusing all and sundry of child abuse, but I'm afraid just because Saville got away with it doesn't make every accusation true either.
 

razorblade

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So we shouldn't speak ill of Saville?


He just another innocent whose name has been besmirched, Eh?
In fairness even though it is extremely likely he was he was never officially found guilty in a court of law and he is no longer alive to answer any questions of his alleged involvement in those crimes , likewise Heath he is no longer around to be able to answer for the crimes he has been accused of, it will just remain pure speculation.
 

TakeitAll

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The pattern I'm noticing in the UK is that high-ranking folks are allowed to live their life to the full and then to shuffle off this mortal coil before their (sometimes alleged) child-raping exploits are made public.
Seems that way but there has been certain 'stars' either brought to justice or questioned. Hopefully all the truth finally comes out before it is too late for the victims to witness that.
 

blokesbloke

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I see nothing to admire, envy or emulate in the Ted Heath fiasco.

A whole equiry which took dozens of specialist officers from a relatively small force to tell us that if Ted Heath were alive today and someone accused him of a serious crime, they would interview him about it. :roll:

In the meantime let's slow down current investigations into actual living people who might be out there abusing children and/or adults right now because we're "investigating" a dead man.

The whole thing was a disgusting waste of public money and likely put people at risk of sexual assault through pointlessly tying up extremely limited police resources.

I don't know if Ted Heath ever did anything criminal or not, but he's dead now so he won't be doing any more whether he did or not.

It is pointless to speculate. He's gone. It's over.

It's not about speaking ill of the dead - it's about not engaging in pointess and futile speculatation about the dead when everyone knows it's impossible now to establish the truth.
 
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blokesbloke

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Seems that way but there has been certain 'stars' either brought to justice or questioned. Hopefully all the truth finally comes out before it is too late for the victims to witness that.
It's been that way in the past but I don't think it is now. There have been a few celebrities brought in for questioning and others convicted.

We need to remin vigilant but I do think the days of certain immunity are gone now, thankfully.
 

Dearghoul

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I see nothing to admire, envy or emulate in the Ted Heath fiasco.

A whole equiry which took dozens of specialist officers from a relatively small force to tell us that if Ted Heath were alive today and someone accused him of a serious crime, they would interview him about it. :roll:

In the meantime let's slow down the investigation into actual living people who might be out there abusing children and/or adults right now because we're "investigating" a dead man.

The whole thing was a disgusting waste of public money and likely put people at risk of sexual assault through pointlessly tying up extremely limited police resources.

I don't know if Ted Heath ever did anything criminal or not, but he's dead now so he won't be doing any more whether he did or not.

It is pointless to speculate. He's gone. It's over.

It's not about speaking ill of the dead - it's about not engaging in pointess and futile speculatation about the dead when everyone knows it's impossible now to establish the truth.
It's an good point, however it depends whether you look at it from a historical or strictly legal standoint.

He's not around to defend himself, (nor is your man Smith BTW) but we'll have no problem with forming judgements on any acts he committed in Public office in the name of historical reassessment.

If the evidence points in a direction that no living Ted Heath ably supported by Counsel would be able to counter, then his victims should be told that, 'yes' we do believe you have been abused, if only for closure for them, if not as grounds for further action.
 

Sync

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So Ireland prosecutes and convicts dozens of priests who abused people, try and fail to take down Haughey for his financial crimes when he was alive, but the uk failing to identify the need to investigate this guy when he was alive and talking about it when it was too late is somehow better?
 

Dame_Enda

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I think the UK system is dreadful. Look what happened to Cliff Richard. He had to endure months of screaming headlines before he was cleared of what turned out to be untrue allegations. Likewise the family of Leon Brittan had to endure years of press stories alleging he was a paedophile, before Labour Deputy Leader Tom Watson and the police finally apologised.

On Ted Heath - he is not alive to defend himself. And the police made the statement to the media that they would question him if he was alive in front of his house. This is political policing. I wonder if the creation of elected Police and Crime Commissioners is playing a role just as in the US, where policing becomes a tool of politics? Since when does questioning someone make them guilty? Celebrities are constantly subject to accusations of sexual misconduct. Some are true but many are false, and the motive for false accusations against them is often financial.

Do you know why such accusations against Irish celebrities are comparatively rare? The reason is that in Ireland, we don't allow the accused to be named before conviction unless the accuser is named too. Furthermore, in the UK system, an accused can be named even if they are not charged. In the Irish system, an accused has to be charged first. That is a major deterrent to false accusations. Some celebrities have demented fans who set out to destroy them. Remember the man who shot Ronald Reagan because he thought Jody Foster would be impressed?

Finally, I strongly believe the UK is still in the grip of Saville-hysteria. Aghast that they failed to deal strongly enough with Saville's crimes, the police are now on a witch-hunt against celebrities in general, based on the flimsiest of evidence. What happened to the actors who played Kevin Webster and Ken Barlow from Coronation St, who were dragged through the courts and headlines for months before being cleared, was disgraceful. It doesn't happen in Ireland because our system respects the presumption of innocence.
 
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Ardillaun

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I would not regard Britain as a shining example in this particular area. Truth be told, they resemble us far too much.

What does all this Heath stuff mean? I remain uncertain. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of incontrovertible evidence.
 

eoghanacht

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Jimmy Saville is definitely the reason why the British have gone a bit mad accusing all and sundry of child abuse, but I'm afraid just because Saville got away with it doesn't make every accusation true either.
And you have no evidence either way.

Who are you to say the allegations against a dead man like Saville are true yet those against Smith etc are true?


Produce your evidence.
 

eoghanacht

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In fairness even though it is extremely likely he was he was never officially found guilty in a court of law and he is no longer alive to answer any questions of his alleged involvement in those crimes , likewise Heath he is no longer around to be able to answer for the crimes he has been accused of, it will just remain pure speculation.
Another one totally ignorant of the evidence.
 

paddycomeback

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/05/ted-heath-would-have-been-questioned-over-seven-abuse-claims-police-say


Of course I was shocked that a former British Prime Minister (a life-long bachelor) was not above suspicion in this little matter above.
I ask myself, would something similar be aired on the Irish media? Even after the alleged suspect was twenty years dead?
I confess to having some admiration for the openness displayed across the water... compared with this "trembling sod".
But then Edward Heath is one of "Yesterday's Men". Water under the bridge now.

And in Ireland once the funeral happens, well we all come out sobbing and singing the praises of the recently deceased.
Well they say: Don't speak ill of the dead. They are'nt around to defend themselves.
What? You think Ted Heath, who was surrounded by machine-gun toting cops for years, and presumably being monitored by MI5, is an example of the British NOT covering things up?
 


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