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A tribute to Pat Finucane's courage



raetsel

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Jun 5, 2017
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People believe what they want to believe, sometimes in the most ridiculously contradictory ways. What we do know is that Sean O'Callaghan was a drunkard, of poor character, probably a fantasist, and with no visible means of support, other than the book he wanted to sell, and the charity of some very dubious people on the fringes of the far right. On the other hand the Stevens enquiry found that there was no evidence to believe that PF was in the IRA.
The fact that unionists on this forum and in the world at large prefer to accept the word of a debased character like O'Callaghan rather than the conclusions of a thorough police investigation led by one of the top police chiefs in the UK speaks volumes about their lack of objective reasoning.
A few years ago we witnessed some people using the testament of Brendan Hughes regarding the Murder of Jean McConville, to, on the one hand, state with certainty it proved that Gerry Adams ordered it, yet in the next breath reject Hughes's claim that British army radio equipment was found in JMcC's home.
There's a parallel here with Trump supporters who choose to believe every utterance he makes even though it is plainly obvious that he is a compulsive liar.
The Finucane family have suffered horrendously, and shouldn't have to put up with further persecution from credulous idiots on the internet. When people post the sort of uncorroborated and almost certainly false claims about the murdered solicitor, on fora like this, they side with the terrorists and rogue RUC officers who colluded in his killing. They are on the dark side. It is a very poor reflection on their characters.
 
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Mickeymac

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Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,634
People believe what they want to believe, sometimes in the most ridiculously contradictory ways. What we do know is that Sean O'Callaghan was a drunkard, of poor character, probably a fantasist, and with no visible means of support, other than the book he wanted to sell, and the charity of some very dubious people on the fringes of the far right. On the other hand the Stevens enquiry found that there was no evidence to believe that PF was in the IRA.
The fact that unionists on this forum and in the world at large prefer to accept the word of a debased character like O'Callaghan rather than the conclusions of a thorough police investigation led by one of the top police chiefs in the UK speaks volumes about their lack of objective reasoning.
A few years ago we witnessed some people using the testament of Brendan Hughes regarding the Murder of Jean McConville, to, on the one hand, state with certainty it proved that Gerry Adams ordered it, yet in the next breath reject Hughes's claim that British army radio equipment was found in JMcC's home.
There's a parallel here with Trump supporters who choose to believe every utterance he makes even though it is plainly obvious that he is a compulsive liar.
The Finucane family have suffered horrendously, and shouldn't have to put up with further persecution from credulous idiots on the internet. When people post the sort of uncorroborated and almost certainly false claims about the murdered solicitor, on for a like this, they side with the terrorists and rogue RUC officers who colluded in his killing. They are on the dark side. It is a very poor reflection on their characters.
10/10 Raetsel.
 

Sweet Darling

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Jan 2, 2017
Messages
4,442
I wasn't talking about what he did, but about the fact that he had courage - I imagine that we can all agree on this. And if you want to make the point that many other people also demonstrated courage, I would agree with this.
I have read before somewhere, That all provo types who were taken in to custody were ordered to request certain named solicitors. The solicitors job for the provo was to access the prisoner mental state and the likelihood that they are turning TouT.
 
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between the bridges

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Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,817
People believe what they want to believe, sometimes in the most ridiculously contradictory ways. What we do know is that Sean O'Callaghan was a drunkard, of poor character, probably a fantasist, and with no visible means of support, other than the book he wanted to sell, and the charity of some very dubious people on the fringes of the far right. On the other hand the Stevens enquiry found that there was no evidence to believe that PF was in the IRA.
The fact that unionists on this forum and in the world at large prefer to accept the word of a debased character like O'Callaghan rather than the conclusions of a thorough police investigation led by one of the top police chiefs in the UK speaks volumes about their lack of objective reasoning.
A few years ago we witnessed some people using the testament of Brendan Hughes regarding the Murder of Jean McConville, to, on the one hand, state with certainty it proved that Gerry Adams ordered it, yet in the next breath reject Hughes's claim that British army radio equipment was found in JMcC's home.
There's a parallel here with Trump supporters who choose to believe every utterance he makes even though it is plainly obvious that he is a compulsive liar.
The Finucane family have suffered horrendously, and shouldn't have to put up with further persecution from credulous idiots on the internet. When people post the sort of uncorroborated and almost certainly false claims about the murdered solicitor, on fora like this, they side with the terrorists and rogue RUC officers who colluded in his killing. They are on the dark side. It is a very poor reflection on their characters.
Here horse all thon might mean something if it wasn't for the fact that ye keep going on about a MP's dads activities as they are relevant to her, ye can't turn around and then dismiss others families relevance...
 

Mickeymac

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38,634
Here horse all thon might mean something if it wasn't for the fact that ye keep going on about a MP's dads activities as they are relevant to her, ye can't turn around and then dismiss others families relevance...
Your use of the word FACT has given me sore sides due to extreme laughter😂
 

raetsel

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Here horse all thon might mean something if it wasn't for the fact that ye keep going on about a MP's dads activities as they are relevant to her, ye can't turn around and then dismiss others families relevance...
Well, if I am are horse, at least I'm a thoroughbred. :)
There's no contradiction in my position at all.
PF's three brothers were in the Provos, and I don't doubt that he had an advanced understanding, from personal experience, of why they chose that course. How far he sympathised with the methods of the IRA is another question entirely. He didn't follow anything like the life path of the typical Provo volunteer. He acquired a law degree, became middle class, fell in love with & married an east Belfast Protestant, and became a prospering family man. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that he had the common sense to avoid jeopardising all that. There is no credible evidence that he was a member, and lots to suggest that he wasn't.
I don't have any illusions as to where his instinctive 'political leanings' were, but 'political leanings' are not a crime, or any justification for murder.
Consider this: what purpose could his membership possibly have been to the IRA anyway? Common sense alone would suggest that he was far more useful to the republican movement as an effective solicitor working within the law, and that jeopardising his legal career would have been both unnecessary and counter-productive.
 

Mickeymac

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I have never read such long winded rubbish even from a self professed thoroughbred.
You even managed to ignore the statement from the then police chief constable who alluded to what he did for Ra suspects and said explicitly he was associated with the Ra.
Ken Magrnnis publicly stated it, and ex IRa man Sean O Callaghan has stated where and when he met him and what the Ra solicitor actually done.
Yet Ratsarse and Pure Green Strawberry says there is no evidence.

You should hang your head in shame dog, demonising a family man enjoying Sunday dinner with his family and cruelly slaughtered by Brit state proxies in the presence of his family is nauseating to say the very least.
 

Paddyc

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Jan 30, 2009
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Here horse all thon might mean something if it wasn't for the fact that ye keep going on about a MP's dads activities as they are relevant to her, ye can't turn around and then dismiss others families relevance...
Here horse,

Has anyone accused Emma Little Pengelly of being a member of the UDA?

No?

Well then your comparison falls apart.

Thanks for playing.
 

Mickeymac

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Jun 30, 2010
Messages
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Here horse,

Has anyone accused Emma Little Pengelly of being a member of the UDA?

No?

Well then your comparison falls apart.

Thanks for playing.

Entirely the fault of peace loving candidates in Belfast South who failed to agree someone to make sure she did not represent their area.
 

between the bridges

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Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,817
Well, if I am are horse, at least I'm a thoroughbred. :)
There's no contradiction in my position at all.
PF's three brothers were in the Provos, and I don't doubt that he had an advanced understanding, from personal experience, of why they chose that course. How far he sympathised with the methods of the IRA is another question entirely. He didn't follow anything like the life path of the typical Provo volunteer. He acquired a law degree, became middle class, fell in love with & married an east Belfast Protestant, and became a prospering family man. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that he had the common sense to avoid jeopardising all that. There is no credible evidence that he was a member, and lots to suggest that he wasn't.
I don't have any illusions as to where his instinctive 'political leanings' were, but 'political leanings' are not a crime, or any justification for murder.
Consider this: what purpose could his membership possibly have been to the IRA anyway? Common sense alone would suggest that he was far more useful to the republican movement as an effective solicitor working within the law, and that jeopardising his legal career would have been both unnecessary and counter-productive.
As I was saying you cast aspersions on one because of family connection and make excuses for the others, thanks for yer long winded conformation of that fact...
 

between the bridges

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Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,817
Here horse,

Has anyone accused Emma Little Pengelly of being a member of the UDA?

No?

Well then your comparison falls apart.

Thanks for playing.
Try and keep up PC, ye'll not manage it but sure it will be amusing all the same...
 

raetsel

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Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
7,530
As I was saying you cast aspersions on one because of family connection and make excuses for the others, thanks for yer long winded conformation of that fact...
I didn't cast aspersions. I stated facts. Pengelly became fair game for criticism in her own right when she tried to quell objections to UVF flags in a flagship integrate social housing scheme in her constituency. In doing so she effectively becoming a propagandist for loyalist intimidation. What she did was outrageous.
 

Mickeymac

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Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,634
I didn't cast aspersions. I stated facts. Pengelly became fair game for criticism in her own right when she tried to quell objections to UVF flags in a flagship integrate social housing scheme in her constituency. In doing so she effectively becoming a propagandist for loyalist intimidation. What she did was outrageous.

Absolutely sir but for her to have done the right thing in those circumstances she would surely have joined the ranks of the unemployed........sad but true as they say....turkeys don't vote for Christmas.:cautious:
 


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