A Tribute to the Noble DDR

Panopticon

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It's 20 years since the Deutsche Demokratische Republik fell to the holocaust of capitalism.
No, it was that the people didn't want to live there any more. Hence the massive wall to keep them in, which is a kind of slavery, when the only employer is the government. If the people still wanted the DDR, they would have kept it. Similarly, if you really want to live in that kind of state, North Korea will let you in (though they are picky...).
 


SevenStars

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It still astonishes me that there is still the odd diehard Stalinist with romantic brooms of life in Stalinist Eastern Europe (especially one with the avatar Cael has).
What are you on about?

Comrade Stalin was privately a believer and even had confession sometimes.

Indeed of the ultra-leftist criticisms of Stalin was that he lifted the persecution of the Church which had existed before.

Religion wasnt repressed in the People's Democracies (outside of Albania but that was due to the sectarian tensions that had previously done so much damage to the country)...The political use of religion for counter-revolutionary purposes was.

Oh and by the way for an increasing number of people today as the world becomes more and more nightmarish the former really existing Socialist states look like a beautiful dream.
 

Panopticon

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Oh and by the way for an increasing number of people today as the world becomes more and more nightmarish the former really existing Socialist states look like a beautiful dream.
BS. You want a police state like the DDR to oppress everyone, just because some people are rich. Envious scum.
 

LeDroit

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Oh and by the way for an increasing number of people today as the world becomes more and more nightmarish the former really existing Socialist states look like a beautiful dream.
Strange that they're all gone then isn't it? Communism couldn't survive democracy or free will, it is anti human. It was fought and defeated by the people.
 

sondagefaux

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Less than 200 people were killed in the whole history of the Wall...How many have been killed because of the border in Ireland?
How many people has the Irish state shot simply for trying to leave the country?

Only a tiny minority ever tried to leave.
People were leaving in droves before the DDR shut its borders - between 3 and 3.5 million left.

After the DDR shut its borders, people who tried to leave without permission could be shot or imprisoned, not exactly an incentive.

People who tried to leave with permission could be persecuted and harassed for years. 1.5 million people have left the DDR since its collapse.

How many of them have gone to North Korea, or Cuba?

How many people have been forced to leave the capitalist paradise of Ireland? One out of every two since 1922.
What percentage of those have gone to states like the DDR? What percentage of those went to other capitalist states? People haven't emigrated from Ireland because they wanted less capitalism. They've emigrated because they wanted either more capitalism or a different kind of capitalism.
 

SevenStars

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BS. You want a police state like the DDR to oppress everyone, just because some people are rich. Envious scum.
Thats just silly....I have just little more than by needs dictate...I dont want more money and I dont envy the rich at all (well their material wealth...I do envy their power). The DDR offers an example of a society more or less working together to achieve greatness.

Unlike the rest of the former Socialist states in terms of money the eastern part of Germany maybe be better off....But its a lot nastier a place to live in now as the prostitution, drugs, neo-nazi hooliganism, crime, etc flooded in.
 

Chrisco

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Less than 200 people were killed in the whole history of the Wall. Only a tiny minority ever tried to leave. How many have been killed because of the border in Ireland? How many people have been forced to leave the capitalist paradise of Ireland? One out of every two since 1922.
1) You mean fewer than 200 people were killed trying to get over the Wall. What exactly is this meant to demonstrate other than the fact that the DDR shot its own citizens in the back?
2)"Only a tiny minority ever tried to leave." See above.
3)I am not aware that anyone was killed for merely attempting to travel from Northern Ireland to the Republic.
4)Are you advocating that the Irish Free State should have prevented its citizens from leaving?
 

bkeith

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lots programmes on NDR (fernsehen Meckelnburg-Vorpommern) celebrating the end of the DDR today, despite some Ostalgie, the general consesus amongst nearly all of the Ossis interviewed was it was a very opressive\terrible time, and it's great to be free now.
 

Chrisco

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Because yours isn't the only argument, plus, a lot of the people who lived there seem to think it is worth defending. Homesick for a Dictatorship: Majority of Eastern Germans Feel Life Better under Communism - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
Note, BTW, that the poll results don't actually say what the headline indicates.

A majority agree that "The GDR had more good sides than bad sides. There were some problems, but life was good there,".

Only 8% agreed with the statement that life was better in the DDR than today.

Also bear in mind that a significant proportion of those polled are under 30, and never actually knew, in any real or meaningful sense, what life was like in the DDR.
 

PrinceMax

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lots programmes on NDR (fernsehen Meckelnburg-Vorpommern) celebrating the end of the DDR today, despite some Ostalgie, the general consesus amongst nearly all of the Ossis interviewed was it was a very opressive\terrible time, and it's great to be free now.
Obviously most people accept that it was oppressive etc.. but that shouldn't diminish its achievements. Most people want to live in a society where they are free to express an opinion, but it generally comes after people's other desire to live comfortably and have enough to eat. There are lots of people in the former East today, that had far more comfortable lives in the DDR. And whilst the wall may be gone, they haven't got too much freedom of movement on one euro per hour.
 

beamish2010

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Ireland a failed capitalist state.

waste of a thread. the DDR was a typical commie failed state. Why bother to even argue the point
And Ireland is a failed capitalist state...Ireland and the DDR are two sides on the same coin...In many ways Ireland and the DDR are very much alike...
 

PrinceMax

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Note, BTW, that the poll results don't actually say what the headline indicates.

A majority agree that "The GDR had more good sides than bad sides. There were some problems, but life was good there,".

Only 8% agreed with the statement that life was better in the DDR than today.

Also bear in mind that a significant proportion of those polled are under 30, and never actually knew, in any real or meaningful sense, what life was like in the DDR.
Yeah, the headline is a bit misleading, but to be fair, it was in response to a poster who asked why we're even having this debate. The answer being it isn't a black and white issue. It wasn't all bad, and most East Germans accept that there were very many positives. You can't say East Germany = Bad, West Germany = Good.
 

Chrisco

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Yeah, the headline is a bit misleading, but to be fair, it was in response to a poster who asked why we're even having this debate. The answer being it isn't a black and white issue. It wasn't all bad, and most East Germans accept that there were very many positives. You can't say East Germany = Bad, West Germany = Good.
You can however say, in the minds of 92% of former Ossies at least, that FRG is better.
 

Cael

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BS. You want a police state like the DDR to oppress everyone, just because some people are rich. Envious scum.
Capitalisim institutionalises envy. Capitalism depends on envy to exist. When I see my neighbour with a new car, the capitalist system depends on me being driven insane by envy and borrowing money for a better car than him - and thus, the vicious circle continues, as he borrows to be better than me again. Capitalism is pure envy, greed and insanity.
 

Cael

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LeDroit

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Capitalisim institutionalises envy. Capitalism depends on envy to exist. When I see my neighbour with a new car, the capitalist system depends on me being driven insane by envy and borrowing money for a better car than him - and thus, the vicious circle continues, as he borrows to be better than me again. Capitalism is pure envy, greed and insanity.
Good innit?! :)
 

bkeith

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Obviously most people accept that it was oppressive etc.. but that shouldn't diminish its achievements. Most people want to live in a society where they are free to express an opinion, but it generally comes after people's other desire to live comfortably and have enough to eat. There are lots of people in the former East today, that had far more comfortable lives in the DDR. And whilst the wall may be gone, they haven't got too much freedom of movement on one euro per hour.
The vat majority of Eastern germans are better fed and live under better conditions now: The only real losers were high ranking Party members who were purged from academia, local government, research, scientific, legal, and enforcement, establishments in a process of political vetting.
 

LeDroit

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