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A United Ireland - how best to acheive it, and what will it be like?


Mattarigna

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
Yes, it's a tired subject, but one which I hope to take in a new direction, so if you are willing to be constructive, whether Nationalist, Unionist or neither - welcome. If you have no interest in the North(as many Soutern Irish posters try to claim), or here to troll or atagonise, then get out of this thread.

To be honest, I think that Gerry Adam's call for a border poll before the end of the next NI assembly will be a fiasco for Nationalism. Not many will vote to join the ROI, even when we recover economically, as a UI is a very ill-defined concept, which could mean anything, from the North being fully absorbed into the ROI, to giving the North effectively devolution-max, with minimal ROI interference, and all or anything in between. This is especially true when the curent status-quo is comfortable enough for many people in the North. That, above everything else, Is Nationalism's biggest problem.

I would say that the priority for the next two decades should be to get the North's economy into some sort of shape, and to create a common civc sphere which can be maintained either in the UK or the ROI. That should be the priority of nationalists serious about reunification.

What I would personally favour is that all Nationalist parties, North and South, should get together and work out how the North will function in a UI, inviting unionist opinion to attend and contribute(although history has shown that in general, such gestures have being effectively fruitless). Effectively, another New Ireland forum. But in absence of that, let's see what can be worked out here - it's pointless, but in fairness, so is 99% of threads here!

There are several questions that need to be asked. To get things rolling, here are some of these questions and my personal responces:

1) What will happen to the Northern assembly, PSNI and other Northern bodiles and institutions?

My answer: Bodies managing stuff like railways, motorways, energy production, etc. will have to be merged, imo, in order for them to work properly. Otherwise, I would allow Northern institutions to keep the same functions as they do in the UK at the moment.

2) Should the Twelfth be made a public holiday in the new UI?

My answer: It should be, as long as all groups involved accepts any limitations that need to be made.

3) What change to Irish language policy should be made?

My answer: Besides ensuring that all people who want Gaelscoils have them, then I would allow Regional authorities(not just the North) to promote the language as they wish, whether it includes making the language compulsory or not.

4) How will the South be able to afford the North, which is running a deficit of over 10 billion pounds?

My answer: That statistic does not include some forms of tax collected in the North, including corporation tax, so although they are running a large deficit still, a Southern Ireland returned to growth will have no problems dealing with it.

5) Will there have to be a new constitution, National flag, Anthem etc.?

My answer: Most definately.

6) Should the new Unified Ireland join the commonwealth?

My answer: If it makes the Unionist community not to feel totally seperated from Britain, then why not? I believe that the EU can be a bigger threat to our republic than the commonwealth, tbh. It's mainly a meaningless club which does not have any drawbacks besides it's *cough* history.

7) Which City should be the Capital of a Unified Ireland?

My answer: I personally favour Athlone, Although I suppose for at least an interm period, Dublin will have to fill that role.

Now, let the battle begin!petunia
 
Last edited:

drummed

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
37,438
What happens if the UK decides to leave the EU? Where will that leave your plans?
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
1) What will happen to the Northern assembly, PSNI and other Northern bodiles and institutions?

My answer: Bodies managing stuff like railways, motorways, energy production, etc. will have to be merged, imo, in order for them to work properly. Otherwise, I would allow Northern institutions to keep the same atomony as they do in the UK at the moment.


Agree with the things you list having to be made national and they're not really controversial anyway. Not sure about PSNI though - I can't imagine one unified coutry having two police forces like that. I mean, I know the UK does but it would seem odd having one force for the 26 counties and an entirely seperate one in NI - and PSNI are trained in UK law and procedures anyway so they'd have to be retrained in any case.

2) Should the Twelfth be made a public holiday in the new UI?

My answer: It should be, as long as all groups involved accepts any limitations that need to be made.


Yes, sounds fair to me. As to limitations, in a UI I think the parades would have to be allowed anywhere, as would St. Patrick's Day parades.

3) What change to Irish language policy should be made?

My answer: Besides ensuring that all people who want Gaelscoils have them, then I would allow Regional authorities(not just the North) to promote the language as they wish, whether it includes making the language compulsory or not.


That would be difficult - if the 6 counties had their own regional authorities then there would be similar problems with one side wanting to do all it could to promote Irish and another side not wanting anything done ta all.

4) How will the South be able to afford the North, which is running a deficit of over 10 billion pounds?

My answer: That statistic does not include some forms of tax collected in the North, including corporation tax, so although they are running a large deficit still, a Southern Ireland returned to growth will have no problems dealing with.


I'm not sure on that to be honest. It won't happen for a while yet though so hopefully the ROI's economy and the rest of the EU's will have improved by then.

5) Will there have to be a new constitution, National flag, Anthem etc.?

My answer: Most definately.


Yes to all - though it is a great pity about the flag because I think the current ROI flag is beautiful - it gives exact equal prominence to both sides with the white for peace inbetween. It would have been the perfect flag for a UI - but sadly it is too associated with the IRA I think now for the PUL community. Definitely a new constitution and anthem would be required, but writing both would be very difficult.

Now, let the battle begin!

Indeed!
 

Republic32

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
2,172
Yes, it's a tired subject, but one which I hope to take in a new direction, so if you are willing to be constructive, whether Nationalist, Unionist or neither - welcome. If you have no interest in the North(as many Soutern Irish posters try to claim), or here to troll or atagonise, then get out of this thread.

To be honest, I think that Gerry Adam's call for a border poll before the end of the next NI assembly will be a fiasco for Nationalism. Not many will vote to join the ROI, even when we recover economically, as a UI is a very ill-defined concept, which could mean anything, from the North being fully absorbed into the ROI, to giving the North effectively devolution-max, with minimal ROI interference, and all or anything in between. This is especially true when the curent status-quo is comfortable enough for many people in the North. That, above everything else, Is Nationalism's biggest problem.

I would say that the priority for the next two decades should be to get the North's economy into some sort of shape, and to create a common civc sphere which can be maintained either in the UK or the ROI. That should be the priority of nationalists serious about reunification.

What I would personally favour is that all Nationalist parties, North and South, should get together and work out how the North will function in a UI, inviting unionist opinion to attend and contribute(although history has shown that in general, such gestures have being effectively fruitless). Effectively, another New Ireland forum. But in absence of that, let's see what can be worked out here - it's pointless, but in fairness, so is 99% of threads here!

There are several questions that need to be asked. To get things rolling, here are some of these questions and my personal responces:

1) What will happen to the Northern assembly, PSNI and other Northern bodiles and institutions?

My answer: Bodies managing stuff like railways, motorways, energy production, etc. will have to be merged, imo, in order for them to work properly. Otherwise, I would allow Northern institutions to keep the same functions as they do in the UK at the moment.

2) Should the Twelfth be made a public holiday in the new UI?

My answer: It should be, as long as all groups involved accepts any limitations that need to be made.

3) What change to Irish language policy should be made?

My answer: Besides ensuring that all people who want Gaelscoils have them, then I would allow Regional authorities(not just the North) to promote the language as they wish, whether it includes making the language compulsory or not.

4) How will the South be able to afford the North, which is running a deficit of over 10 billion pounds?

My answer: That statistic does not include some forms of tax collected in the North, including corporation tax, so although they are running a large deficit still, a Southern Ireland returned to growth will have no problems dealing with.

5) Will there have to be a new constitution, National flag, Anthem etc.?

My answer: Most definately.

Now, let the battle begin!petunia
Put on your tin hat, I suspect there will be some incoming fire coming your way very soon.
 

Astral Peaks

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
25,986
Toman, maybe if we approached this from the Local Govt perspective, we might see things more clearly?

All politics is local, isn't it?
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
What happens if the UK decides to leave the EU? Where will that leave your plans?
I don't see why Ireland the UK couldn't have a bilateral agreement as we did before either of us were in the EU. Or would the EU not allow it for Ireland?
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
Could posters please remember the OP is 17. Sorry to mention that OP but I think it's worth bearing it mind.
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
FFS, whenever you are the first poster on any of my threads, I fear the worse......
Quite rightly too.

Just remember, Drummed is a frustrated Kilkenny bogger farmer who juices cows for a living and thinks bathing more than once a year is for nancies.

He's not very sophisticated or bright so go easy on him.
 

Mattarigna

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
1) What will happen to the Northern assembly, PSNI and other Northern bodiles and institutions?

My answer: Bodies managing stuff like railways, motorways, energy production, etc. will have to be merged, imo, in order for them to work properly. Otherwise, I would allow Northern institutions to keep the same atomony as they do in the UK at the moment.


Agree with the things you list having to be made national and they're not really controversial anyway. Not sure about PSNI though - I can't imagine one unified coutry having two police forces like that. I mean, I know the UK does but it would seem odd having one force for the 26 counties and an entirely seperate one in NI - and PSNI are trained in UK law and procedures anyway so they'd have to be retrained in any case.

2) Should the Twelfth be made a public holiday in the new UI?

My answer: It should be, as long as all groups involved accepts any limitations that need to be made.


Yes, sounds fair to me. As to limitations, in a UI I think the parades would have to be allowed anywhere, as would St. Patrick's Day parades.

3) What change to Irish language policy should be made?

My answer: Besides ensuring that all people who want Gaelscoils have them, then I would allow Regional authorities(not just the North) to promote the language as they wish, whether it includes making the language compulsory or not.


That would be difficult - if the 6 counties had their own regional authorities then there would be similar problems with one side wanting to do all it could to promote Irish and another side not wanting anything done ta all.

4) How will the South be able to afford the North, which is running a deficit of over 10 billion pounds?

My answer: That statistic does not include some forms of tax collected in the North, including corporation tax, so although they are running a large deficit still, a Southern Ireland returned to growth will have no problems dealing with.


I'm not sure on that to be honest. It won't happen for a while yet though so hopefully the ROI's economy and the rest of the EU's will have improved by then.

5) Will there have to be a new constitution, National flag, Anthem etc.?

My answer: Most definately.


Yes to all - though it is a great pity about the flag because I think the current ROI flag is beautiful - it gives exact equal prominence to both sides with the white for peace inbetween. It would have been the perfect flag for a UI - but sadly it is too associated with the IRA I think now for the PUL community. Definitely a new constitution and anthem would be required, but writing both would be very difficult.

Now, let the battle begin!

Indeed!
1) Well, I support having regional authorities in the ROI having their own force, so it's only natural that I would support retaining the PSNI as well.

2) Unfortunately, twelfth parades are controversial. Comparing it to St.Patrick's day is not really accurate - it would be more comparable to Easter Rising celebrations really.

3) I recognise that, but I think that forcing it may repeal Unionists.

4) Certainly not within the timeline SF has proposed.

5) TBH, the flag is the biggest regret for.me. I grew up with it, I suppose, but my support for a UI is stronger. Even when it happens though, aka, a UI, the tricolour, not the new flag, will be the one which I will think of when it comes to my national identity.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,597
I support a federal United Ireland with a parliament in each province which will have significant local autonomy and central government in Dublin responsible for defence, foreign affairs, economy and any other national issue.
The current Presidential standard would be an acceptable new flag as it has royal and national connotations.
The anthem will be difficult. I love the one at present but would give it up for a UI.
 

Mattarigna

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
I support a federal United Ireland with a parliament in each province which will have significant local autonomy and central government in Dublin responsible for defence, foreign affairs, economy and any other national issue.
The current Presidential standard would be an acceptable new flag as it has royal and national connotations.
The anthem will be difficult. I love the one at present but would give it up for a UI.
Well, let's see what Unionists say about you proposed flag.

As for the anthem - yeah, THAT would be difficult.
 

drummed

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
37,438
TBH, I don't think that it will make a bit of difference.

You think having one country which is partly in the EU and partly outside the EU makes no difference? Carry on............
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,597
You think having one country which is partly in the EU and partly outside the EU makes no difference? Carry on............
A United Ireland would probably have to renegotiate entry as Scotland would if they go independent as it would be a complete new entity. So if the UK leaves, not that big an issue if we have to apply to get back in.
 

drummed

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
37,438
A United Ireland would probably have to renegotiate entry as Scotland would if they go independent as it would be a complete new entity. So if the UK leaves, not that big an issue if we have to apply to get back in.
Ahhh.............no. If NI was out for a decade before unity it would be a fairly major issue.
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
Ah, Blokey......
Sorry mate I didn't mean that badly, it's just I remembered the reaction to my NI thread and how it upset me for a while, so I just kind of wanted people to go easy.

Sorry. I meant well.
 
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