A united Korea? Really?

forest

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Today we celebrate the 20th aniversery of the unification of germnay
Cyprus should be reunited soon

Of course Nationalists here want Ireland united

But could Korea ever be unified really

Germany is still paying for and coming to terms with its unification
and compared to N.Korea the DDR was a wealthy, outwardly looking democratic state

Could S.Korea ever unify with the North is it possible
The damage done to the people of N.Korea phically and mentally mau nver be able to be repared

It is said that the Northerners have genetically changed since the creation of the DPR

Is it possible should S.Korea try
 


MDaniel

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North Korea makes Saudi Arabia look like a democracy. The book "Nothing to Envy" by Barbara Demick is the first one to attempt to describe the country from the inside. Any reunification will be painful and we might discover that the situation was as bad as in Cambodia; not a prospect any of us relish.

Also, China will not like to see on its border a country that it can't control. Not that it can control North Korea, but at least it does not appear too threatening. China has supported many countries in the past based on economic or ideological principles: Cambodia, Sudan, North Korea. Its lack of experience on the world stage and bad memories from Western powers and Japan who intended to carve up China has made China wary of forcing "bad" countries to behave.

North Korea to China is like a bad child that you can't teach to behave nor wish to abandon.

Something is bound to change soon, because, as in East Germany, more North Koerans have access to the west through illegal mobile phones and pocket radios smuggled in from China. It's still is very slow but this kind of information from the rest of the world could snowball that nobody could stop. One has to hope that the top brass in the army have some common sense and really care about their country.

They might be afraid that should changes come too fast, their citizens might want them to go the same way as Ceausescu in Romania.

We in Ireland should help as much as we can, our experience with Northern Ireland has forced us to be realistic and inventive as regards divided countries.
Oops, I forgot FF is still in the governess!
Maybe, Labour or FG could give them only one department: Foreign Affairs, no room for corruption and experience in parallel universes
 

Cael

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johntrenchard

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The death of Kim Il Sung.


North Korean propaganda video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrvIM1ENcbA&feature=related]YouTube - Death of the Father of the Socialist Homeland (1/3)[/ame]

the WTF moment happens about 1 minute in.

quite frankly, there is zero chance of reunification with the South - the cultures are just way too different now.

UN Mandate for about 20 years in order to make the gradual acclimatisation of the North with the South.
 

sowhat

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There is a chance that this prison state may end similar to what happened in Romania 20 years ago. All countries partitioned against the will of the people will eventually reunify as we saw in Germany and Yemen in recent decades. Only a matter of time before the same occurs in Korea, Cyprus and Ireland.
 

forest

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Cyprus yes
Korea and ireland not so sure
 

sowhat

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Nobody predicted the reunification of Germany or Yemen until pretty soon before the event. Cyprus and Ireland have similar issues whilst Korea is obviously partitioned on the basis of ideology and is governed by criminals. Hopefully their fate will be similar to that of Ceausescu.
 

joenitka

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North Korea makes Saudi Arabia look like a democracy. The book "Nothing to Envy" by Barbara Demick is the first one to attempt to describe the country from the inside.
I just finshed reading this quite an amazing, sad harrowing story. The North Koreans who have managed to defect found it difficult at the start but through help programs setup by south Korea they went on to have normal lives. Not sure how that would work if the whole county unified over night. But shows that it possible.

BTW I was in Hodges Figgis in Dublin and they had Nothing to envy in the Travel section :lol: Not really what I would call a travel book.
 

redtoothclaw

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North Korea shows no sign whatsoever of imploding - the North Korean military is trained and armed by the Chinese. The Chinese prop up North Korea in order to balance U.S. influence over Taiwan, Japan and the Asian-Pacific zone.
There is as much change of Taiwan unifying with China as there is of Korean unification.
In Europe from 1961-1989 the Berlin Wall kept a lid on potential nuclear conflagration but the Russians saw West Berlin as the West's scrotum - all they had to do was give it a squeeze now and then.
That is China's policy with North Korea. Create an artificial stand-off and keep the heat turned up in Asia while they can begin the new scramble for Africa.
America and the West could not care less if North Korea is a slave camp hell hole as long as the Kim makes empty threats and the border is quiet.
 

Thac0man

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North Korea shows no sign whatsoever of imploding - the North Korean military is trained and armed by the Chinese. The Chinese prop up North Korea in order to balance U.S. influence over Taiwan, Japan and the Asian-Pacific zone.
There is as much change of Taiwan unifying with China as there is of Korean unification.
In Europe from 1961-1989 the Berlin Wall kept a lid on potential nuclear conflagration but the Russians saw West Berlin as the West's scrotum - all they had to do was give it a squeeze now and then.
That is China's policy with North Korea. Create an artificial stand-off and keep the heat turned up in Asia while they can begin the new scramble for Africa.
America and the West could not care less if North Korea is a slave camp hell hole as long as the Kim makes empty threats and the border is quiet.
China may heve seen Korea as an ace in the hole once, but those days are practically gone. Chinas expansionist aims are not confined to Africa, far from it in fact. China claims the entire South China sea for instance and disputes ownership of a number of Islands and territories with its neighbours. Its recent diplomatic spat with Japan being a good example, centered as it was around disputed islands.

Add to that that Korea only seems like it is not imploding if one looks at Korean state media and believes nothing else that comes from other sources. Given a bigger more complete picture it is amazing North Korea is still intact.

In that context Korea becomes Chinas vunerable scrotum, not the Wests. Political and military pressure applied against North Korea would scare China who have already demonstrated they are jumpy about possible collapse of the Pyongyang regime. Millions of malnourished NK refugees flooding into China would be a serious challange to internal Chinese security. Why, when it looked like Kim may have been killed a couple of years ago did China deploy so many troops to the border? Not to dole out aid to incoming refugees thats for sure. A full scale invasion? Not very likely, I don't think China would want to get into a shooting match with chaotic NK forces or be a force of occupation having no legitimate claim to North Korean territory. To prop up the Pyongyang regime? Not likely when the deployment seemed to be in response to the collapse of the Pyongyang regime.

There is little simularity between the regimes in Pyongyang and Beijing. There is even less simularity in terms of social and economic factors now and for the forseeable future.

In the recent diplomatic clash with Japan, China has solved much of the issue surrounding the US base on Okinawa, the US presense has been shown to be needed. Simularly North Korea gives justification to the continued presense of other US bases in SE Asia.

China is in a delicate situation with the US presense being the main block to regional nuclear proliferation. While North Korea conversely is the spur to potential spread of nuclear weapons. As China grows more powerful North Korea is an ally it can increasingly do without on many levels.
 

Earnest

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Today we celebrate the 20th aniversery of the unification of germnay
Cyprus should be reunited soon

Of course Nationalists here want Ireland united

But could Korea ever be unified really

Germany is still paying for and coming to terms with its unification
and compared to N.Korea the DDR was a wealthy, outwardly looking democratic state

Could S.Korea ever unify with the North is it possible
The damage done to the people of N.Korea phically and mentally mau nver be able to be repared

It is said that the Northerners have genetically changed since the creation of the DPR
By whom? While the famines could have killed off some genetically weak lines, it is unlikely that there has been any major change. And the creation of the DPR could not itself have made any change.

Possibly the North Koreans still believe in Lysenko's theories whereby environment could change genes, but no-one else does.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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The South Koreans aspire to reunify the peninsula, and seem to be going about it in a very sensible way.

They have a Ministry of Unification; their English-language website Welcome to the Ministry of Unification sets out their policy for reunification.

But there is also the possibility that North Korea could become permanently embedded in China's sphere of influence.
 

Ruaidhri

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we'll soon see if reunification is possible when Kim Jong Un take over from his Dad in 2012/2013(I think). If he has been groomed to be another Kim Jong Il then I don't see reunification happening for at least 40 more years. If he is more liberal then perhaps it won't take as long.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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we'll soon see if reunification is possible when Kim Jong Un take over from his Dad in 2012/2013(I think). If he has been groomed to be another Kim Jong Il then I don't see reunification happening for at least 40 more years. If he is more liberal then perhaps it won't take as long.
But the paradox here is that a more liberal regime, opening the country up to trade with its neighbours, would increase China's influence and so delay or prevent reunification.
 

Riadach

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By whom? While the famines could have killed off some genetically weak lines, it is unlikely that there has been any major change. And the creation of the DPR could not itself have made any change.

Possibly the North Koreans still believe in Lysenko's theories whereby environment could change genes, but no-one else does.
The environment can indeed cause various genes to be expressed and others to be suppressed.
 

Earnest

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The environment can indeed cause various genes to be expressed and others to be suppressed.
I was pointing out that Lysenkoism is debunked, not producing an academic contribution to science. Can acquired characteristics be inherited or not? Or, as Forest suggested, can North Koreans have changed genetically since the establishment of the DPR?
 

omnieoin

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The environment can indeed cause various genes to be expressed and others to be suppressed.
In 50 years? Not a chance! There is no way there are major genetic differences between the two populations because of partition!
 

Green eyed monster

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We had better hope that things remain as they are, any attempt at reunification will be violent in the extreme. The incident over an alleged N Korean missile attack indicates that mutual distrust and even hatred persists and a mutually concensual coming together of the two regimes is not on the horizon.

Which leaves war.

They never had any right to split the country between the two Cold War combatants in the first place, the Korean Peninsula had suffered horribly as a result of Japanese occupation, then they were rewarded or compensated for that by being the political playthings of the great powers... It wasn't right.
 

forest

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By whom? While the famines could have killed off some genetically weak lines, it is unlikely that there has been any major change. And the creation of the DPR could not itself have made any change.

Possibly the North Koreans still believe in Lysenko's theories whereby environment could change genes, but no-one else does.
i was refering to the fact that N.Koreans seem to be shrinking due to malnurishment
They have meant to have shrunk 8-10cm

They are smaller than their southern neighbours

North Korean height is 164 cm
South Korea height is 173.6 cm
 


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