A vengeful Deity?

benroe

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God doesn't exist so can we end the conversation at that?
No! god has always and will always exist in the minds of the fearful an gullible of which there seems to be an endless supply, this stupidity may well prove fatal to our species and it behooves us to deny its credibility and ridicule it at every opportunity.
 


Malcolm Redfellow

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Katrina flooded from the sea.

The current flooding is from rain.

It royally fooking sucks for these people right now, two of whom from Lafayette, are staying in our house, because theirs is gone.

Making hay from their misery makes you a bit of a dick, Malcolm.

Where was such a thread last winter when Cork and the rest of the southeast of Ireland was being flooded out? Was that God's punishment for them?

Fück off down The Garden Gate and eat some more quinoa, why doncha.
I have to admit, Carlos Danger, I see your point. And, yes: I do feel for the victims of this flood. After all, I live in the city of (old) York, which has had its own problems of late. But your point wasn't mine.

If there was a motive behind my original post it was a rejection of religioso hypocrisy: wishing divine wrath on those of whom one disapproves, while sententiously rejecting similar divine retribution for oneself.

Moreover, there is a purblind ignorance at work, especially among the circles Tony Perkins frequents.

What we do know is that Louisiana is due for more, much more, of the same. On 6th May 2014 the National Climate Assessment report predicted precisely what is currently in train.

Senator David Vitter, R-La, predictably denounced the science- and knowledge-based Report:
The Administration’s Climate Assessment suffers from problems similar to those in reports put forward by the I[ntergovernmental] P[anel on] C[limate] C[ontrol]; while intended to be a scientific document, it’s more of a political one used to justify more government overreach.
"Government overreach", in Senator Vitter's definition, does not prevent subbing $100,000 of federal money to promoting creationism as "better science education".

Senator Vitter has some other odd priorities: he urges a "National Tea Party Day", and has pledged to his local "Tea Party Patriots" that he will "Conduct [him]self personally and professionally in a moral and socially appropriate manner". Vitter, of course, came to national attention when he was exposed as a client of the "D.C. Madam" prostitution service. So, no hypocrisy there, either. No: that's not all ancient history — the Supreme Court recently prevented release of the "D.C. Madam" files, which were alleged to impact on the 2016 Presidential Election.

On which note, I see that Carlos Danger identifies himself as @anthonyweiner — which leads us to the former Representative of New York's 9th District, some more personal sexual angst and "a bit of a dick" himself. On which assumption of identity, my suspension of belief is now ... err ... total.
 
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ruserious

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No! god has always and will always exist in the minds of the fearful an gullible of which there seems to be an endless supply, this stupidity may well prove fatal to our species and it behooves us to deny its credibility and ridicule it at every opportunity.
The late and great George Carlin:

[video]https://youtu.be/8r-e2NDSTuE[/video]
 

ruserious

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Such a persuasive argument-utterly convincing when put like that
That's the thing. The onus lies with the religious to make a persuasive argument. Not with the non believer.
 

benroe

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Oh Christ-not another lame George Carlin video-you're an atheist George -we get it already-
George Carlin and other comedians like him have exposed religions hypocrisy far more successfully than any "new atheist", the best way to treat someone who tries to wedge their pathetic beliefs into a conversation is to mock them and for this we owe the likes of george.
 

Malcolm Redfellow

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Is this the case?
Surely a value "judgement"? Decide for yourself:
Lest we forget: Tony Perkins is pro-Trump because Trump will "put an end to Obama's anti-Christian persecution". He was one of the GOP platform organising committee for the recent Convention, and was granted the podium to tell us The Donald will move "America back to the country that honors God and therefore would be a recipient of His blessing".

Others have unkindly reflected that:
the flood doesn’t seem to have differentiated between West Baton Rouge Parish, which voted for Trump, and East Baton Rouge Parish, which voted for Ted Cruz.
 

Seanie Lemass

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The cumulative history of everything before the big bang ........

You are onto a Nobel Prize there fly if you have a theory about that!

On a more serious note, no-one knows what led to the creation of the Universe. Early Christians like Eriugena and indeed some ancient myths are as valid as any.

The originator of Big Bang by the way was a Jesuit Fr. Lamaitre.

He was denounced as an obscurantist and scientists who supported him in Soviet Union were murdered.

Oh, and they were "scientific socialists" :)
 

Seanie Lemass

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No! god has always and will always exist in the minds of the fearful an gullible of which there seems to be an endless supply, this stupidity may well prove fatal to our species and it behooves us to deny its credibility and ridicule it at every opportunity.


Whereas atheistic totalitarianism has brought such joy and happiness :)
 

benroe

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Whereas atheistic totalitarianism has brought such joy and happiness :)
There have been countless theocracies and not one atheocracy, Why?
because atheism has no content whatsoever, it is nothing more than the disbelief in a claim.
 

Seanie Lemass

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There have been countless theocracies and not one atheocracy, Why?
because atheism has no content whatsoever, it is nothing more than the disbelief in a claim.

Dostoyevsky: "If there is no god, then everything is permissible"

He was a prophet of what happened in his own country and in Europe and China in the 20th century.
 

gerhard dengler

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Surely a value "judgement"? Decide for yourself:
Lest we forget: Tony Perkins is pro-Trump because Trump will "put an end to Obama's anti-Christian persecution". He was one of the GOP platform organising committee for the recent Convention, and was granted the podium to tell us The Donald will move "America back to the country that honors God and therefore would be a recipient of His blessing".

Others have unkindly reflected that:
Invoking God is problematic on several levels. Scripture teaches that no one is to put God to the test.
Therefore invoking God to wipe out ones enemies is testing God, and is contrary to Scripture.

But there are other problems too with such invocation. If one is a Christian one would want ones enemies to be converted to Christianity, rather than being destroyed.

As regards assigning natural calamities to providential judgement? It is difficult to know how one can credibly do so.
 

benroe

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Dostoyevsky: "If there is no god, then everything is permissible"

He was a prophet of what happened in his own country and in Europe and China in the 20th century.
If you need a pretend parent to abdicate your moral responsibilities to, then you could at least make up one with less inclination to violence ,misogyny and intolerance.
 

Malcolm Redfellow

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I admit I had to look it up, but what we are enmired by, here, is "theodicy", defined by the OED as:
The, or a, vindication of the divine attributes, esp. justice and holiness, in respect to the existence of evil; a writing, doctrine, or theory intended to 'justify the ways of God to men'.
The term, it seems, originates with Leibniz in 1710. The horse's mouth is here.

What I learned of the topic came from a study here.

So what I'm finding so intriguing is how the extreme God-botherers (of whom Tony Perkins is a bargain-basement example) try to justify the natural disasters — to which we are all, at times, liable — as paradoxical proofs of divine "goodness". Similarly when Haiti suffered its devastating 2010 earthquake, Rabbi Yehudi Levin saw it as proof of retribution for the island's high HIV/AIDS problem. To compound the folly, Pastor Pat Robertson saw a similar explanation when in 2011 the eastern US experienced earth tremors — except Robertson took it further to suggest the cause was people "who act kind of gay".

And we mock witch-trials.

Taking it a step further, we have the entanglement of these theists in right-wing politics. We're all aware of their pernicious influence in Ireland, north and south; but the southern Baptists of the US take the biscuit.

Perhaps the origin of this meme (which amounts to reading Leviticus to denounce certain sexual inclinations) may somehow derive from "Chaos theory" and Edward Lorenz of MIT addressing the American Academy for the Advancement of Science with the metaphor of a butterfly flapping its wings in Amazonia (or wherever) "causing" climatic upheavals in a distant continent. Oddly, when Lorenz merely posed it as hypotheticals, the religiosi have to be deterministic.

In coping with such pig-headedness I find myself reflecting, "I was I was as convinced of anything, as you seem to be of everything". It also works for the extreme assertions that masquerade as "history" on p.ie
 

Seanie Lemass

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If you need a pretend parent to abdicate your moral responsibilities to, then you could at least make up one with less inclination to violence ,misogyny and intolerance.

Okay..... we'll talk about Dostoyevsky in a few more years!
 

ProsandCons

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Not a big Pink Floyd fan, but Roger Waters has Mr/Mr. God's measure in his son "What God Wants":

God wants goodness, God wants light, God wants mayhem, God wants a clean fight,
God wants peace, God wants war, God wants famine, God wants chain stories,
God wants sedition, God wants sex, God wants freedom, God wants semtex,
God wants voodoo, God wants shrines, God wants law, God wants organised crime,
God wants crusade, God wants jihad, God wants good, God wants bad,
God wants small towns, God wants pain, God wants clean up rock campaigns,
God wants widows, God wants solutions, God wants TV, God wants contributions,
God wants silver, God wants gold, God wants his secret, Never to be told,
God wants gigolos, God wants giraffes, God wants politics, God wants a good laugh,
God wants friendship, God wants fame, God wants credit, God wants blame,
God wants poverty, God wants wealth, God wants insurance, God wants to cover himself.
 

Wagmore

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George Carlin and other comedians like him have exposed religions hypocrisy far more successfully than any "new atheist", the best way to treat someone who tries to wedge their pathetic beliefs into a conversation is to mock them and for this we owe the likes of george.
Only someone in drastic need of a sense of humour transplant could find that tedious old bore funny. Comedy is always the first casualty of agenda driven lefty twonks like Carlin.
 


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