Abolish Seanad Éireann and the office of the presidency

TheBear

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<Mod>Moved to the Seanad Éireann forum.</Mod>
 


total

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im sure seanad would be of use if we cold reform it properly, why is everyone such pessimists?
 

freedomlover

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People are only going on about the Seanad this week because Bertie appointed Eoghan Harris to it. If he'd appointed Vincent Browne or some other left-wing tosser, they'd all be saying the Seanad should be given more power.
 

mickinclare

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KingKane said:
Biffo said:
mickinclare said:
Does anyone feel that Seanad Éireann, should be scrapped, I feel that that this is not only a waste of time but an absolute waste of tax payers money, I also believe that the office of the president should be abolished, and that the number of TDs should be halved.

your comments please
Does anyone feel that poorly worded and poorly thought out threads should be subject to some sort of screening before arriving in the latest discussion menu? You cannot simply aboilsh the head of state and why half the number of TDs exactly?
Biffo, such threads remain as a means to establish the lazy and inconsequential amongst the flock. mickinclare will be demanding within a few short weeks that people read all his previous post before responding.
Well your responses are exactly what I would expect from people who are happy to support an essentially undemocratic and wasteful institution as Seanad Eireann. As for the presidency, there was not even an election last time for this pointless office.

I also still believe we have far to many TDs
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

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mickinclare said:
Does anyone feel that Seanad Éireann, should be scrapped, I feel that that this is not only a waste of time but an absolute waste of tax payers money, I also believe that the office of the president should be abolished, and that the number of TDs should be halved.

your comments please
nope they should be reformed. the oirachtas is not reflective of irish society. it should be if there the ones who pass the laws.
 

wombat

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Totally agree on abolishing of Seanad, we have to have a head of state, don't fancy a king/queen, halving the no. of TD's, probably a bad idea.
 

fergalr

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Ambrose said:
i think the seanad and presidency should be abolished, its a waste of money.

i also think the westminster political system we've adopted is retarded and would prefer the american and french system of a president choosing his/her own cabinet. it would be much more productive than being stuck in a coalition with a party you dont even like.
So we would have FF in office forever?
Um....we have to have a head of state. And I think we're better off with a second chamber of Parliament, albeit one appointed in a transparent manner.
 

THR

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If you have a republican form of government, you have a president as head of state. Most people are against the idea of having a president with very large powers like the French president. There must be a mechanism which enables removal of an incompetent political leader. The British PM has very large, almost presidential power, but one vote of no-confidence in the House of Commons and he´s out.

The presidents serve their full term and unless they break the law, it is impossible to get rid of them in any other way than to wait for the next election which could be years away.
 
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The Seanad should be abolished, as far as I can see. We have no need for a bicameral parliament, e.g. The U.S. has the senate to give equal representation to each state, ant the house to give representation proportional to population.
We don't have to strike any balance, so I can't see the need for the Seanad.

The presidency should be changed to a max. of two 4 year terms. Also the requirement of 20 oireachtas members/ 4 CCs should be done away with.
The president should be given more power but not too much.
 

Respvblica

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THR said:
If you have a republican form of government, you have a president as head of state. Most people are against the idea of having a president with very large powers like the French president. There must be a mechanism which enables removal of an incompetent political leader. The British PM has very large, almost presidential power, but one vote of no-confidence in the House of Commons and he´s out.

The presidents serve their full term and unless they break the law, it is impossible to get rid of them in any other way than to wait for the next election which could be years away.
A head of state is not always necessary and while there are many successfull precedents in history there are also examples in the modern world(Switzerland). Of course most people like the pomp and circumstance of a patriarchal-kings-substitute figure (a feeling that actually makes me feel slightly sick) so I will just have to tolerate for now.

My ideas on the archtecture of the state are more for the longterterm. I'm afraid that in the name of stability we are concentrating too much power in the dail and the government, especially the office of Taoiseach. A system of checks and balances is always essential and we are poorly equiped in that department. Our Taoiseach selects senators, cuts private deals and due to a political machine can rule with uninterrupted power for a generation. If we can modify the Dail, the Seanad and the office of President so that power is no longer so concentrated, then I think the citizens will start to become more involved, more listened to, and ultimately more powerful. History has proven time and time again, that when central executive power is distributed amongst the free citizens the results are progress and prosperity.

I would set up a Seanad of 64 seats, 2 senators directly elected for each county, That will satisfy the regional requirements. The Dails true function is the power of the Veto, and the legislative powers that comes from that. The President should be renamed the president of the council of state, which he is anyway. In my Ireland we would have a Toaiseach, but a formal head of state is hardly necessary. The real role of the president is be a last word on the constitutionality of a law, not attend foreign countries or football matches. The people should be made understand that. Our politicians are currently doing a great job in hiding the true meaning of their responsibilities.
 

fergalr

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independentobserver said:
The Seanad should be abolished, as far as I can see. We have no need for a bicameral parliament, e.g. The U.S. has the senate to give equal representation to each state, ant the house to give representation proportional to population.
We don't have to strike any balance, so I can't see the need for the Seanad.

The presidency should be changed to a max. of two 4 year terms. Also the requirement of 20 oireachtas members/ 4 CCs should be done away with.
The president should be given more power but not too much.
The US is a federal system so it's upper house represents the states, in the same way as Germany's, Austria's and Australia's. (Interestingly, Canada's upper house is entirely appointed by the PM and hold their positions for life, and don't represent individual provinces)
Most democracies possess a second chamber, notable exceptions being Finland and NZ. There's an argument for getting rid of it in small countries, but I think the need for a check on the populist or cynical machinations of a govenment dominated lower chamber is required. For that, we'd need a considerably more independent seanad.

Funnily enough, now that the vast majority of heriditary peers have been ushered out of the Lords in Westminster, the Upper House of Parliament there has rejected a third of govt legislation and has been a more reliable guarantor or civil liberties than the Commons. It's being regarded as a case study for the benefits of semi-independently appointed, semi-independent second chambers.
 

Richie Nixon

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Jan 18, 2007
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The appointment of Eoin Harris, displays the need for fast and efficient Senate reform. Harris's appointment is cronyism at its worst, as Mr Harris backed Bertie to the hilt throughout the duration fo Berties's financial difficulties. Appointments of Callaly and co also display the goldfish style memory that some of our national politicians display year in year out.

-The concept of Taoiseach's nominees needs to be abolished
-All Graduates of Ireland's IT's must be Enfranchised
-Certain Panels Must have an exclusive independant streak
-As elected representatives, more power should be vested in Senators, and they should be able to influence policy far more. Their ability to debate policy, and a short veto is not good enough

With regards the Presidency, Its an office that holds little weight, however, it serves a purpose as an international ambassador. While the executive and legislature remains at home to deal with internal affairs of the country, the President can create goodwill for Ireland on an international scale. Furthermore, the office has been held by many of Ireland's most famous activists, simply because there is little weight behind the office, it does not mean that its abolition should be fought for. Look at the Monarch in the United Kingdom ! The Queen's role has been gradually eroded, and the Prime Minister holds executive power. However, the historical weight attached to the monarch ensures the roles survival.

I would not look for abolition of either the Seanad nor the Presidency. The former needs to be addressed and reformed as soon as possible
 

fergalr

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The role of the President to is act as guardian of the Constitution against legislation repugnant to it, through the power exercised at her sole discretion to refer it to the Supreme Court.
Aside from that, the office gives legal basis for the calling and closing of the Oireachtas and gives the role of CinC of the armed forces to someone other than the head of government.
 

A New Ireland

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What about Local Councillors, what do they do? Vote in a Budget once a Year and Bye-laws that bring in extra cash. If we elected a Mayor, Manager and assistant to both according to their vote count(1,2,3)! Do away with councillors and have different organisations, volunteer a representative in the Chamber with Local Business to socal groups involved in the running of Local council. One council per County, we are not france or Germany etc.
 

beamish2010

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Agree with you 100%

Does anyone feel that Seanad Éireann, should be scrapped, I feel that that this is not only a waste of time but an absolute waste of tax payers money, I also believe that the office of the president should be abolished, and that the number of TDs should be halved.

your comments please
I totally agree with you 100%...Ireland cannot afford the senate and presidency.
 

Éireann go Brách

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reform + cut costs? Yes
Abolish? I don't know

Can anyone give examples of other countries with one parliament systems?
 


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