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Abortion at EU level


The OD

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Sorry to start another thread on abortion but I was thinking (because I'm home sick with an ear infection and am completely bedridden) about abortion across the EU and how pro-life EU supporters feel about it?

Surely it is a paradox to support the EU and be pro-life? I know many pro-lifers on here are not overly enamoured with the EU so this is not directed towards them. If you are so pro life why are you not also protesting outside all the embassies of EU states that provide abortion, especially the UK embassy? How many abortions has the British state facilitated for Irish women? Why is our minister of state for European affairs, Lucinda Creighton, a pro-lifer not getting upset about abortions being available, on demand, in other EU states? Why is she so pro-Europe if that Europe has so much on-demand abortion?

My views on this are clear - I'm pro-choice (or pro-abortion, pro-death, baby killer, heard them all) and anti EU so I was merely wondering how those who are my polar opposite feel? I know there are plenty of people with strong opinions on this but I am only interested in those I list above?
 


meriwether

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There's so much in that OP to cause a row.

EU & Abortion. Its like the alpha and omega of a P.ie row.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Abortion isn't an EU competence, so the premise of the OP is irrelevant.
 

The OD

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There's so much in that OP to cause a row.

EU & Abortion. Its like the alpha and omega of a P.ie row.
I know. I'm really not trying to start a fight, I am just wondering how people can have such strong views against/for abortion and be so against/for the EU. Seems bizarre to me? Come to think of it, it's almost like a 'states rights' argument in the US with the EU being the federal government?
 

hiding behind a poster

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There's so much in that OP to cause a row.

EU & Abortion. Its like the alpha and omega of a P.ie row.
Yep, I wish he'd thrown in a bit of stuff about bankers' salaries, TDs' pensions, a bit of generic "snouts at the trough", and so on. Then everyone could enjoy it more fully.
 

hiding behind a poster

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I know. I'm really not trying to start a fight, I am just wondering how people can have such strong views against/for abortion and be so against/for the EU. Seems bizarre to me? Come to think of it, it's almost like a 'states rights' argument in the US with the EU being the federal government?
Well abortion is not an EU competence, meaning that its up to each individual state what their abortion policy is.
 

NYCKY

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Yep, I wish he'd thrown in a bit of stuff about bankers' salaries, TDs' pensions, a bit of generic "snouts at the trough", and so on. Then everyone could enjoy it more fully.

There really should have been even a passing reference to Sinn Fein, like sneak in a quote from Mary Lou and maybe some Joos too, to really spice it up, like something Alan Shatter said.
 

willow68

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I wouldn't be the biggest cheerleader for the EU, but it has its advantages, like dragging us into the 21st century and away from the Roman church's clutches, if kicking and screaming... Irish membership of the EU has done more for us women than many sausage-fests of successive indigenous governments.. My commiserations on your ear infection...I get them as well, and nothing is more painful...get better soon:) What you need is a long, hot summer!!
 

The OD

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Abortion isn't an EU competence, so the premise of the OP is irrelevant.
It's not a question of competence, its more about how you can reconcile a strong opposition to abortion with strong support for creating a superstate which contains jurisdictions which have abortion on demand? Why are we not lobbying the UK to stop them allowing Irish women using their abortion clinics? Abortion is abortion, simply saying 'not in my backyard' is not stopping it from happening? It's puzzling?
 

The OD

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Yep, I wish he'd thrown in a bit of stuff about bankers' salaries, TDs' pensions, a bit of generic "snouts at the trough", and so on. Then everyone could enjoy it more fully.
I would have but it is a serious question.

There really should have been even a passing reference to Sinn Fein, like sneak in a quote from Mary Lou and maybe some Joos too, to really spice it up, like something Alan Shatter said.
Why? So you can then make a joke out of it? If you have an opinion, let's here it?
 

Victor Meldrew

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Why is our minister of state for European affairs, Lucinda Creighton, a pro-lifer not getting upset about abortions being available, on demand, in other EU states?
This is also why the idea of Ganley providing a platform for disgruntled FG'ers is so hilarious...

Let the Mental Reservations begin....
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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If you are so pro life why are you not also protesting outside all the embassies of EU states that provide abortion, especially the UK embassy? How many abortions has the British state facilitated for Irish women? Why is our minister of state for European affairs, Lucinda Creighton, a pro-lifer not getting upset about abortions being available, on demand, in other EU states? Why is she so pro-Europe if that Europe has so much on-demand abortion?

My views on this are clear - I'm pro-choice (or pro-abortion, pro-death, baby killer, heard them all) and anti EU so I was merely wondering how those who are my polar opposite feel? I know there are plenty of people with strong opinions on this but I am only interested in those I list above?
Why ask foreign parliaments to protect Irish Unborn Children when the Irish Parliament could enact measure to do so?



To do so is just dodging responsibility!
 

The OD

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Very good question, I'd say you'll be waiting for an answer though!
I know, I can think of several posters who are very pro-EU, anti-abortion. I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to explain why they are OK with being in a political union with states that allow Irish women travel there for terminations?
 

The OD

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Why ask foreign parliaments to protect Irish Unborn Children when the Irish Parliament could enact measure to do so?



To do so is just dodging responsibility!
Do you think that they should have travel restrictions for pregnant women? That sounds familiar.......
 

NYCKY

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I would have but it is a serious question.



Why? So you can then make a joke out of it? If you have an opinion, let's here it?
I don't mean to make a joke out of a worthy OP, was just injecting a little humor. I don't live in the EU and I will never have an abortion but that doesn't preclude me from commenting on them.

I don't think the two issues are mutually exclusive, you can support one or both and conversely you can be opposed to one or both, it really depends on your level of enthusiasm on the subject. I have mixed views on both topics but I don't correlate them at all.
 

FrankSpeaks

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My guess is the like of TFM, SilverSpurs, Silvio Dante and Gerhard Dengler take the attitude that as long as it does not happen on my land its no concern of mine.

I'm sure they would take the same attitude with their unmarried children riding; as long as it's not under my roof, flake away!
 

kvran

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pro-life are lucky that we have the UK for abortions. All the backstreet abortions and self induced miscarriages (and the deaths etc. that would come with them) that would occur without the UK would make it difficult be so sanctimonious
 

hiding behind a poster

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It's not a question of competence, its more about how you can reconcile a strong opposition to abortion with strong support for creating a superstate which contains jurisdictions which have abortion on demand? Why are we not lobbying the UK to stop them allowing Irish women using their abortion clinics? Abortion is abortion, simply saying 'not in my backyard' is not stopping it from happening? It's puzzling?
The EU isn't a "superstate", though. What happens in Ireland and other countries is standard democratic activism. People lobby, protest, and so on, to their own public representatives - the unspoken logic being that as the people who can then vote for or against them in future elections, they wish to make their views heard. We can't vote for or against public representatives in other countries, so we've less influence, either spoken or unspoken, over them.
 

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