• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Abortion counselling advice endangering the lives of Irish women


Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
Revealed: the abortion advice that could put lives at risk - National News - Independent.ie


It has emerged in a an article in todays Irish Independent that illegal advice being given to women on abortion is seriously endangering their lives.

In some cases women were told to hide having an abortion from her GP:

In several instances, women were told to hide their abortions from their doctors, a course of action that could endanger life if post-surgery abortion complications remain undiagnosed.

A small percentage of women suffer perforation of the womb following terminations, which can remain undetected but can cause problems in later pregnancies.
Professor Sam Coulter Smith, the master of Dublin'sRotunda Hospital, has warned.
He said he was aware of cases where women have died because they did not tell their doctors they'd had a termination.
In another case women were told about importing illegal abortion pills from Northern Ireland, pills which if taken without medical supervision could cause the death of the women:

At the Tallaght and Cork branches of the IFPA, women were told how to get an abortion pill, which is illegal here, by smuggling it into the State through Northern Ireland.

The HSE has confirmed that crisis pregnancy counsellors should not provide information on how to get the abortion pill.
The pills induce an abortion by causing a miscarriage. They should only be taken under medical supervision because they can cause bleeding, severe infection or, in rare instances, death.
A qualified barrister who is also a medical doctor has described it as negligent and even possibly criminal:

Dr Simon Mills, a barrister and medical doctor, said: "It is definitely reckless and probably negligent advice to tell a woman to conceal from doctors something that may be a vital part of her medical history.

"This is especially the case if she presented unwell in the immediate aftermath of a termination and felt that she shouldn't tell her doctor about it when it could be the key piece of information to deliver prompt and life-saving treatment.

"If somebody turned around and said the reason I didn't tell my doctor was because a counsellor told me it wasn't necessary, civil liability would almost certainly arise and I think it is possible that criminal liability could too."
The silence on this from many of those campaigning for abortion on the grounds of women’s health issues is deafening. One has to wonder how this was allowed to happen and why it took an investigation by a pro-life group to expose it. It would seem that some of those giving this advice who one would presume are pro-choice (if they weren't it would be hard to envisage them giving such advice) were not taking the medical well being of the woman’s health into full account.
 


Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,963
The silence on this from many of those campaigning for abortion on the grounds of women’s health issues is deafening. One has to wonder how this was allowed to happen and why it took an investigation by a pro-life group to expose it. It would seem that some of those giving this advice who one would presume are pro-choice (if they weren't it would be hard to envisage them giving such advice) were not taking the medical well being of the woman’s health into full account.

Are you surprised TPP? The pro-abortionists possess the same swivel-eyed zealotry as Jihadists. The woman is a pawn in a great game.
 

Thady Quill

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
413
If abortion was legalised and regulated - as it should - this issue would never have arisen.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
40,632
It would appear that the concealment of an abortion is the main danger.

Why should a woman feel compelled to hide that part of her medical history other than because of the poisonous associations with termination which are fed by the anti-abortion side?
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,963
It would appear that the concealment of an abortion is the main danger.

Why should a woman feel compelled to hide that part of her medical history other than because of the poisonous associations with termination which are fed by the anti-abortion side?
They were being told to hide the fact.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
If abortion was legalised and regulated - as it should - this issue would never have arisen.
It would appear that the concealment of an abortion is the main danger.

Why should a woman feel compelled to hide that part of her medical history other than because of the poisonous associations with termination which are fed by the anti-abortion side?
As Clanrickard pointed out above they were being told to hide it, one wonders if abortion was legal in Ireland would people who would still provide such advice be routed out by the HSE? After all only for the investigation of a pro-life group this may have never come to light.
 

SilverSpurs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
5,550
Revealed: the abortion advice that could put lives at risk - National News - Independent.ie


It has emerged in a an article in todays Irish Independent that illegal advice being given to women on abortion is seriously endangering their lives.

In some cases women were told to hide having an abortion from her GP:





In another case women were told about importing illegal abortion pills from Northern Ireland, pills which if taken without medical supervision could cause the death of the women:



A qualified barrister who is also a medical doctor has described it as negligent and even possibly criminal:



The silence on this from many of those campaigning for abortion on the grounds of women’s health issues is deafening. One has to wonder how this was allowed to happen and why it took an investigation by a pro-life group to expose it. It would seem that some of those giving this advice who one would presume are pro-choice (if they weren't it would be hard to envisage them giving such advice) were not taking the medical well being of the woman’s health into full account.
Read that article myself but not in anyway surprised by the abortion lobby's carry on. It's an industry plain and simple. It also makes a nonsense of the idea that abortion can be regulated. Abortion information is supposed to be tightly regulated according to the 1995 act and the assurances of tight regulation got the yes vote in 1992. wha do we think will hapen if the likes of the IFPA are allowed to carry out abortions in the state under 'tight regulation'.
Also makes a total nonsense about the 'welfare' of women. Abortion exists to cut the burden on public services by curbing the numbers of the poor and disabled otherwise the lefts greatest totem pole the 'free' public health service collapses. Similarly the welfare class that votes left in every election cannot be allowed grow too big.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
19,087
If abortion was legalised and regulated - as it should - this issue would never have arisen.
Perhaps not, but it gives a very revealing insight into the mindset of the actors concerned - they are not giving impartial, independent, and medically ethical advice for the very reason that they see themselves as advocates for abortion, and the welfare of the mother clearly took second place in their minds to their mental checklist on 'getting away with it'.

None of which matters - even if they were completely responsible and independent in their advice, which they clearly are not, abortion would still be utterly wrong.
 

Ryan Tubbs

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
3,660
If abortion was legalised and regulated - as it should - this issue would never have arisen.
How would the legalisation and regulation of abortion prevent the incompetence and gross negligence of counselling services which are already state-funded and regulated?

That's like saying that a complete liberalisation of our laws on insider trading, derivatives etc. would have prevented the regulatory failures at the Central Bank.
 

rgaok

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
1,949
sounds like entrapment by the fanatical so-called "pro lifers"
 

Cellach

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
5,094
So to summarise then, three councillors at the IFPA and one at the HSE in Ballinasloe advice that these women 'could' (not should as has been stated, could) hide their abortions from their doctors if they so wish. You'll see that in the article. The general statement is that the women are told to hide their abortions, while the specific cases all use 'could'. Why is that?

Women were also informed where they could order abortion pills on the internet. Again this was done by individual councillors, with no proof or even suggestion that this was cleared by the higher ups, either in IFPA or the HSE. Yet even when we take all the above into account, TPP has still managed to write an OP suggesting that pro-choice folk don't take the medical health of women into account when giving advice, which presumably also includes the HSE which he failed to mention for some unaccountable reason.

A few last last observations. The advice given by the HSE and the IFPA doesn't actually do anything to bring in abortion. When something illegal happens, then normally you bring your concerns to the Gardaí rather than the Irish Independent, and finally, the actions of three or four individuals should not be used without proof as 'revealing the mindsets of the actors involved' as that is in fact the very definition of tarring them all with the same brush.
 

pippakin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
9,658
More tat from the pro women enslavers. If abortion were legal as it damn well should be, there would not be the need for illegal counselors or anything else on abortion.

And yes this countrys appallingly backward attitude on abortion means it may well be in the best interest of a woman who has had an abortion to keep that fact from everyone.

The way some people seem to think they can pry into every aspect of an individuals life including their sex life and procreation suggests those people are the ones who need counselling.:mad:
 

Ryan Tubbs

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
3,660
More tat from the pro women enslavers. If abortion were legal as it damn well should be, there would not be the need for illegal counselors or anything else on abortion.
Again I have to ask: Can you please explain how the legalisation of abortion would have prevented dangerous and irresponsible advice being given to these women?
 

making waves

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
19,265
It would appear that the concealment of an abortion is the main danger.

Why should a woman feel compelled to hide that part of her medical history other than because of the poisonous associations with termination which are fed by the anti-abortion side?
I will tell you why - because there are many right-wing anti-abortion doctors around who would report the woman to the police for trying to have an abortion and turn her travelling to the UK into another media cricus - they would have no interest in the welfare of the woman and would attempt to use her to further their own reactionary agenda.

Pro-lifers are not pro-life they are pro-controlling women irrespective of the damage it does to the woman.
 

Ryan Tubbs

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
3,660
Pro-lifers are not pro-life they are pro-controlling women irrespective of the damage it does to the woman.
Can you name one pro-life organisation that advocates forcing a woman to go full-term where the pregnancy presents a medical danger to her life?

If you can't then I expect you'll retract that comment.
 

pippakin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
9,658
Again I have to ask: Can you please explain how the legalisation of abortion would have prevented dangerous and irresponsible advice being given to these women?
In the same way that legalising abortion in the UK drove the back street abortionists there, and here, out of business. Potential life may have been lost but the actual lives of thousands of women have been saved and permanent damage to thousands more survivors avoided
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top