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Abortion


Guinnesslad

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
25
Ireland is one of the few 1st world, industrialized, western nations where abortion is illegal.
Should it be?
I've been thinking about this, and I used to always have a knee-jerk reaction of 'yes of course it should be legal - the government shouldn't tell women what they can do with their bodies.' However, I had the thought a while ago of, is abortion a facet of facism or communism, where the individual doesn't matter. Also, the argument of abortion shows how little society cares about the human life.
I myself have yet to make up my mind, but what do you all think?
Is abortion ok, and should it be legalized?
 


The Collective.

Active member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
159
Abortion is legal, its just restricted. I think we need tuffer laws against it.

"Also, the argument of abortion shows how little society cares about the human life."

Spot on. Killing the defenceless, faceless, and the blameless
 

Tintern1

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
12
However, I had the thought a while ago of, is abortion a facet of facism or communism, where the individual doesn't matter.
Oh for God's sake, I won't dignify that deep gibberish with a response

Also, the argument of abortion shows how little society cares about the human life.
No in fact it's quite the opposite. You were right with your first thoughts.
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
34,712
Yes, abortion should be allowed. It shouldn't be a prevalent, it shouldn't be run of the mill.
But it should be attainable and accessible when necessary to women from this country in this country.
I don't like the idea of abortion but I have no right to inflict my views on others when it comes to matter of their own body.
But it's impossible to deny that it's already being chosen by Irish women, day in day out who are having to undergo undue stress, trauma and expense, but who do it anyway because they feel it is necessary. It's ridiculous to believe that just because we don't allow it in the state we are somehow taking the moral high ground when it's going on in huge numbers by hundreds or thousands of women every day.
There is also the issue of women who, for whatever reason, cannot leave the state or who cannot afford to do it who are left with little choice but to pick less safe options because likewise they cannot afford to have a baby or another baby. It's an awful situation to be in and again, by this blind belief that we're maintaining some moral superiority by such strict limits on abortion in this country we are causing untold pain, suffering and hardship on these women both mentally and or physically.
Further to that, continuing to foster this ilicit image of abortion continues the trauma and suffering of those who have undergone an abortion outside the state.
As I've said, it shouldn't be an easy choice and it shouldn't be the first option but when it is deemed necessary by a woman, for whatever reason, she should have the help and support she needs failure to do otherwise is an insult.
 

MartinP

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
91
It should remain illegal. There's no doubt in my mind that there are thousands of happy, well looked after children alive in Ireland today because of the lack of availability of abortion on demand here. If it remaining illegal saves the life of only one person then having it illegal is the correct position.
 

Champa

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
33
Its a very touchy subject, feminazis reckon that women should have the right to do as they wish with their body, I think any women who has an abortion because a child would be "inconvenient" should be sterilized to ensure that they are never inconvienced again.
 

Podolski

Active member
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
104
Champa said:
Its a very touchy subject, feminazis reckon that women should have the right to do as they wish with their body, I think any women who has an abortion because a child would be "inconvenient" should be sterilized to ensure that they are never inconvienced again.
and you have the neck to talk about "feminazis" !!!
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
34,712
MartinP said:
I agree. Sterilisation should be part of the procedure when it's being done.
I vehemently disagree with the mere suggestion of such an idea.
Sadly this is often the outcome of abortion when carried out by unsafe, uncontrolled methods on desperate women who feel they have no other choice.
Though from the sounds of thing you would delight at such an outcome.
 

pocleary

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
203
Guinnesslad said:
Ireland is one of the few 1st world, industrialized, western nations where abortion is illegal.
Should it be?
I've been thinking about this, and I used to always have a knee-jerk reaction of 'yes of course it should be legal - the government shouldn't tell women what they can do with their bodies.' However, I had the thought a while ago of, is abortion a facet of facism or communism, where the individual doesn't matter. Also, the argument of abortion shows how little society cares about the human life.
I myself have yet to make up my mind, but what do you all think?
Is abortion ok, and should it be legalized?
The people VOTED on the issue and thats democracy, unlike in the North of Ireland a supposed part of the UK where abortion is legal yet people up there are not allowed abortions so travel to london and other english cities for abortions and because they are regarded as irish the figures for irish women going to the Uk for abortions is bloated.
though personally I think its a womans issue and women should decide. its a medical procedure on a womans body after all.
 

MartinP

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
91
CookieMonster said:
I vehemently disagree with the mere suggestion of such an idea.
Sadly this is often the outcome of abortion when carried out by unsafe, uncontrolled methods on desperate women who feel they have no other choice.
Though from the sounds of thing you would delight at such an outcome.
Absolutely not. Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too. Some people aren't as careful as they should be because they know that even if they do get pregnant they can arrange to kill the child.
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
34,712
MartinP said:
CookieMonster said:
I vehemently disagree with the mere suggestion of such an idea.
Sadly this is often the outcome of abortion when carried out by unsafe, uncontrolled methods on desperate women who feel they have no other choice.
Though from the sounds of thing you would delight at such an outcome.
Absolutely not. Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too. Some people aren't as careful as they should be because they know that even if they do get pregnant they can arrange to kill the child.
That's a ridiculous argument. If a death sentence were mandatory punishment for murder would there be proportionally less murder than there would be if it was only a prison sentence?
Would theft in Saudi Arabia be unknown if punishment was the loss of an hand?
In both cases, no.
Sure, abortion can be an option for the careless but steralisation is an unnecessary and barbaric punishment.
It's also hyprocritical for you to suggest such a thing. If, as you say, there are many well looked after children alive today as a result of abortion being strictly limited (not illegal) in Ireland, by steralising women who had had an abortion you are premptively limiting the number of possible well looked after children who could have been born at a later stage in a woman's life when circumstances are more conducive to her providing happy, healthy home for a child.
 

essexboy

Active member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
177
MartinP said:
CookieMonster said:
I vehemently disagree with the mere suggestion of such an idea.
Sadly this is often the outcome of abortion when carried out by unsafe, uncontrolled methods on desperate women who feel they have no other choice.
Though from the sounds of thing you would delight at such an outcome.
Absolutely not. Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too. Some people aren't as careful as they should be because they know that even if they do get pregnant they can arrange to kill the child.
Do you know anyone who has had an abortion or are you talking through your posterior? I met several Irish women who wanted one when I lived in London and NONE of them treated it lightly. Of course they could have had the secret adoption so popular in the 60s and 70s
 

Limerick Lad

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
4,609
MartinP said:
..... Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too.........
Would you also advocate the castration of the males involved, after all what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it's been a while there was an immaculate conception, if ever.
 

Kate P

Active member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
106
Limerick Lad said:
MartinP said:
..... Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too.........
Would you also advocate the castration of the males involved, after all what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it's been a while there was an immaculate conception, if ever.
I'm surprised that there has been virtually no reference to the fact that the unborn child has two parents. There's no forum for the father of an unborn child to express his views. I'd consider that an important need to be met before abortion be made legal if that is to happen.
 

Champa

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
33
Kate P said:
[quote="Limerick Lad":gn6jjht0]
MartinP said:
..... Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too.........
Would you also advocate the castration of the males involved, after all what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it's been a while there was an immaculate conception, if ever.
I'm surprised that there has been virtually no reference to the fact that the unborn child has two parents. There's no forum for the father of an unborn child to express his views. I'd consider that an important need to be met before abortion be made legal if that is to happen.[/quote:gn6jjht0]

Thats an excellent point.
 

grandad

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
33
Kate P said:
[quote="Limerick Lad":ke8tx7j9]
MartinP said:
..... Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too.........
Would you also advocate the castration of the males involved, after all what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it's been a while there was an immaculate conception, if ever.
I'm surprised that there has been virtually no reference to the fact that the unborn child has two parents. There's no forum for the father of an unborn child to express his views. I'd consider that an important need to be met before abortion be made legal if that is to happen.[/quote:ke8tx7j9]

Kate P
Abortion wont be made legal here.!

Is mise
Grandad
 

Henry Joy

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
35
MartinP said:
CookieMonster said:
I vehemently disagree with the mere suggestion of such an idea.
Sadly this is often the outcome of abortion when carried out by unsafe, uncontrolled methods on desperate women who feel they have no other choice.
Though from the sounds of thing you would delight at such an outcome.
Absolutely not. Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too. Some people aren't as careful as they should be because they know that even if they do get pregnant they can arrange to kill the child.
It's not a child. It's a bunch of cells up until about 6 weeks.
 

Kate P

Active member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
106
grandad said:
Kate P said:
[quote="Limerick Lad":3dwn9l7k]
MartinP said:
..... Although if steralisation was part and parcel of abortion I think you'd find the rate at which it happens would decrease dramatically. And there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies too.........
Would you also advocate the castration of the males involved, after all what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it's been a while there was an immaculate conception, if ever.
I'm surprised that there has been virtually no reference to the fact that the unborn child has two parents. There's no forum for the father of an unborn child to express his views. I'd consider that an important need to be met before abortion be made legal if that is to happen.
Kate P
Abortion wont be made legal here.!

Is mise
Grandad[/quote:3dwn9l7k]

Never? How prescient of you!

Meanwhile, there are women leaving the country to have an abortion whose 'partners' have no say in their actions and the consequences. That still has to be remedied.
 

mollox

Active member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
202
Kate P said:
Meanwhile, there are women leaving the country to have an abortion whose 'partners' have no say in their actions and the consequences. That still has to be remedied.
Surely this is a fundamental element of "a woman's right to choose"?
 

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