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Abortions will "nearly treble" in 2019


owedtojoy

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So figures by START, the group representing GPs who provide abortion pills to women, indicate 800-900 abortions are being performed every month. Adding in abortions performed in hospitals and abortions performed in England, it is expected the number of abortions among Irish women could "nearly treble" this year..

Pro-life campaigners have expressed dismay about the large number of abortions already being performed. Indications that abortion rate has trebled in one year a devastating tragedy: Pro Life campaign
Hard to see the grounds for the horror. You have to suspect it is largely faked.

Surely these are terminations which were formerly carried out in the UK?
 


owedtojoy

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Abortions performed in England have deccreased, but not by a corresponding number.
The number of abortions carried out in the UK which could have happened here was always suspect because of Irish women giving UK addresses.
 

basketcase

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Link please
Half-way down the article...figures from British Pregnancy Advisory Service

"the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, which runs more than 70 clinics in the UK, as claiming the number of women with Irish addresses accessing abortion services between January and March as having decreased from 257 last year to 64 this year, a reduction of 75%. "

 

basketcase

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No START represent the pro-choice doctors. They are the ones handing out the abortion pills. They ought to know how many pills they have handed out.
Apologies, I read that wrong! However, the fact remains that the 8th was repealed & women
have a legal right to access abortion here now - regardless of the objections of the Pro-life
movement. Incidentally, if START are representing GPs providing the service, why are figures only "estimated"?? Even if you take a median number of 850 per month - assuming START's figures are broadly speaking correct, 4284 Irish women travelled to the UK for termination in 2015, over 1000 abortion pills were =also seized by customs that year, so it's safe to assume that multiples of those
abortion pills made it to the intended recipients. That being the case it's unlikely that the abortion rate is increasing by anything even close to half. Coupled to that, Irish women have historically also travelled to the Netherlands for termination - stats record circa 1550 between 2006 & 2015.
This is just a case of NIMBY by the Pro-life movement - abortion figures aren't increasing drastically, it's just that women are now legally accessing services here in their own country,
so the actual number of terminations is easier to quantify.
 

Buchaill Dana

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Half-way down the article...figures from British Pregnancy Advisory Service

"the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, which runs more than 70 clinics in the UK, as claiming the number of women with Irish addresses accessing abortion services between January and March as having decreased from 257 last year to 64 this year, a reduction of 75%. "

Right. So we know the rate fell abroad and rose here. No shit etc.

However if we believe the 900 a month figure, and accept 15,000 births a quarter, pro life are claiming a 20% termination rate, and thats low as people buy pills on line. That would be by a considerable distance the highest abortion rate, ever, anywhere. 900 a month is 10,800 a year, 3,000 women a year used to travel, so we are to believe the rate increased 300% + in 3 months.

If you believe that etc.
 

basketcase

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Hard to see the grounds for the horror. You have to suspect it is largely faked.

Surely these are terminations which were formerly carried out in the UK?
Definitely & also a lot of illegally sourced abortion pills bought online were being seized coming into the country, so one has to assume that many also made it to the intended recipients.
This is a non-story - all that's happening is that Irish women are now accessing services legally here in Ireland instead of travelling abroad or buying pills illegally online.
 

basketcase

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Right. So we know the rate fell abroad and rose here. No shit etc.

However if we believe the 900 a month figure, and accept 15,000 births a quarter, pro life are claiming a 20% termination rate, and thats low as people buy pills on line. That would be by a considerable distance the highest abortion rate, ever, anywhere. 900 a month is 10,800 a year, 3,000 women a year used to travel, so we are to believe the rate increased 300% + in 3 months.

If you believe that etc.
In fact, in 2015 more like 4200 travelled to UK, that obviously doesn't include any that may have travelled to the Netherlands or other, nor does it include all those that bought pills online (1000 of which were seized by customs in 2015 so multiples probably made it to intended recipients).
It's a non-story & a case of NIMBY by the Pro-life Group!
 

Emily Davison

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Could anybody link me to actual proof of the following:

a) For February, March and April there were 900 abortions per month in Ireland.
b) START figures - I found there website but there is nothing there
c) Where are pro life getting the actual figures from
d) BPAS figures that's about the only one that sounds reasonable

There is zero point us discussing a pro life slant from the Irish Examiner which has mentioned BPAS, Rte, Start, but zero actual proof of anything.
 
Last edited:

Emily Davison

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- Indications that abortion rate has trebled

Now that's a bold statement, no proof in the article thought that it's true

- no official figures

that contradicts the headline

- START group, which represents about 250 medical professionals involved in abortion provision, said its members estimate they are carrying out between 800-900 terminations a month.

where is this 'fact' coming from

- RTE also report the private company Affidea, which is providing ultrasounds as part of abortion services, as having carried out around 500 since the start of the year.

What does this actually mean. And I've gone into that link, it also says this:

The hospitals that are providing terminations say demand has been less than expected, but some say that the compulsory three day wait is problematic
 

Buchaill Dana

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Could anybody link me to actual proof of the following:

a) For February, March and April there were 900 abortions in Ireland.
b) START figures - I found there website but there is nothing there
c) Where are pro life getting the actual figures from
d) BPAS figures

There is zero point us discussing a pro life slant from the Irish Examiner which has mentioned BPAS, Rte, Start, but zero actual proof of anything.
To be fair, the Examiner took what RTE reported and put an O'Taliban spin on it. Click the RTE text in red.

However there are atill no links to the organisations reports, nobody quoted and the numbers fail to pass the sanity check. Having an ultrasound =/= mean having an abortion.

There are simply not 1000 terminations a month happening, thats one in 3 pregnancies. We wont know until July at the earliest until the birth rates come in.
 

Emily Davison

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To be fair, the Examiner took what RTE reported and put an O'Taliban spin on it. Click the RTE text in red.

However there are atill no links to the organisations reports, nobody quoted and the numbers fail to pass the sanity check. Having an ultrasound =/= mean having an abortion.

There are simply not 1000 terminations a month happening, thats one in 3 pregnancies. We wont know until July at the earliest until the birth rates come in.
I realise now what the Examiner did. Crazy stuff. If figures have tripled, then by next January all babies will be aborted if that were true.

900 a month is nearly 10,000 a year. Is that what you are basing the one in 3 on?

And of course we got our very own pie O'Taliban to run with the 'news' on here.
 

Buchaill Dana

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I realise now what the Examiner did. Crazy stuff. If figures have tripled, then by next January all babies will be aborted if that were true.

900 a month is nearly 10,000 a year. Is that what you are basing the one in 3 on?

And of course we got our very own pie O'Taliban to run with the 'news' on here.
The last birth rate I could find was 15,000 a quarter in 2016.

Add in the 500 a quarter from the ultrasound people and its nearly 1 in 3. Clear nonsense.
 

petaljam

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The last birth rate I could find was 15,000 a quarter in 2016.

Add in the 500 a quarter from the ultrasound people and its nearly 1 in 3. Clear nonsense.
Mmm. It will be interesting to see the corresponding fall in the birth rate.

If the figures are accurate, that is - and if they are, that it's a huge increase on past figures, which were merely estimates.

Personally, I think we'll find - when we get actual numbers and not just more prolife spinning of estimated numbers - that the numbers are higher than previous estimates, but that the birthrate will be unchanged, ie, evidence that those estimates were well below the actual number of abortions taking place every year.
 

Half Nelson

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800-900 pm, plus those travelling to the UK.

It's another Famine!
 

crossman

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Whats the point in debating the numbers now? Abortion happened in the UK in the past and its happening here now. Either way its a traumatic event for the mother, the father (if he knows about it) and of course the child most of all. We just have to accept it and hope, by whatever means (better education, etc) the numbers reduce. Somehow I fear they will increase as abortion becomes normalised.
 

Massey

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That is the best way of finding out

- because the Abortionistas will do their best to hide the true figures.
Im sure the other side will try to show an increased abortion rate as a result of the change in the law.
It will be very hard to show an increased rate given so many were ordering pills online , the actual figure pre law change is difficult to quantify.

A lowered birthrate , while also open to debate , would perhaps be a better barometer.

The best way, to me, to decrease abortions is to promote efffective contraception/ safe sex, and provide support to those women who seek abortions for other reasons.
 

petaljam

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Im sure the other side will try to show an increased abortion rate as a result of the change in the law.
It will be very hard to show an increased rate given so many were ordering pills online , the actual figure pre law change is difficult to quantify.

A lowered birthrate , while also open to debate , would perhaps be a better barometer.

The best way, to me, to decrease abortions is to promote efffective contraception/ safe sex, and provide support to those women who seek abortions for other reasons.
I agree with that, and especially effective contraception, but I think it's worth reminding posters, especially the prolife posters who are still around (TBH most appear to have abandoned the issue, as they did with divorce and with contraception before that) that the best way of reducing abortions is to create a child/family friendly society, where families are not financially penalised by childcare costs and women are not penalised in their careers by motherhood.

I wonder how many prolifers will get involved in campaigns to, say, subsidise childcare costs? Or for better legal protection for families who are renting? Or to ensure that a parent who takes a career break to raise children gets their job back as easily as possible?


Like, if prolifers actually wanted to incite couples to reproduce, rather than force them to? I'd bet a significant sum of money we won't see many of the well known "prolife" figures on any of those issues. They much prefer to wring their hands over dodgy statistics and tell us how awful the world is now that nobody listens to them any more. :whistle:
 

raetsel

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It's an industry, there is gona be a pile of cash made from it.
Plenty of people will be hoping that the foolish Irish keep killing there own, they will bevm rubbing their hands at the though of it.
That's beyond paranoia. It is nuts.
Yes, doctors and nurses earn salaries for abortion services. But it is not as if this is a business dreamt up to keep them in work because they'd be unemployed otherwise. There's no shortage of work for them in other fields anyway.
How other Irish people want to plan their lives and their family size is none of your business. You need to butt out, stop trying toforce your moral standards on others, accept that abortion in Ireland is a fact of life and just move on with your own life.
 

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