Accent snobbery in the Irish media

femmefatale

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Yeah, that's a neat reversal of the tendency by rustics* to affect a metropolitan accent to make themselves sound posh or whatever.

*No offence intended; I'm a rustic myself.
It's sad that people find this necessary. When I was young, myself and all my friends went to elocution lessons. Later on, in school, when reciting poetry or performing classical drama, received pronunciation would be insisted on. People just seemed to accept that our natural accent was objectionable and that 'speaking properly' meant cultivating a different accent.
 
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Wendy

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It's sad that people find this necessary. When I was young, myself and all my friends went to elocution lessons. Later on, in school, when reciting poetry or performing classical drama, received pronunciation would be insisted on. People just seemed to accept that our natural accent was objectionable and that 'speaking properly' meant cultivating a different accent.
True for you. And research tells us that women are the worst offenders. :p
 

macdarawhitfield

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what does the slang word langer mean??? in cork
is it a slang word for genitialia???
Yes,I have heard it used for the penis.And who course for certain lads who are compared with it!

In reply to the poster about the English penchant for 'Celtic Fringe' accents as they call them:It's true they are seen as classless,or at least not 'working class'.This is because Ireland and Scotland were not as heavily industrialised as England.Our accents therefore tend to be assocciated with hills and heather.Accents from the English Midlands and North ,by contrast ,conjure up images of coalmines and cotton mills belching filthy smoke.Or nowadays,presumably,some howling wilderness of a post Thatcherite industrial wasteland.#

But this trick doesnt work for the Ulster accent.Belfast is on tv so often since the Troubles and the hills and heather are conspicuously absent.They far prefer the neutered tones of the Dublin 'bway area' as local djs insist on call it.
My pet hate (esp vis a vis Dub) is the way the women try to ape the errors of grammmar and pronunciation which litter the speech of their - usually English - role models.Glottal stops - leaving out the 'T' - dipthongs -'A' sounds instead of 'O', also glide vowels ? Not sure if it's the right term ; a little 'W' sound barely pronounced at the end of 'O' .

Sorry,sisters,it is usually women - maybe men are not articulate or confident enough to try it yet! I remember the first time I came back from London,some guy gave me a pint.'Ta' I blurted out.That was my cred gone for the rest of the night as my pals indulged in Alf Garnett impersonations.Ha, now they all have birds where they used to have mots.Well ,no ,their sons do actually but you get my drift.Cheers Declan,me ol' mate,you know who you are!!
 

euroboy

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I find alot of RTE/TV3's accents to be annoying and difficult to listen to.

The girls seem to the worst offenders both in accent and substance('oh really, lets not go there, moving on' rubbish they go on with).

As for the top presenters, I wonder how Miriam ever got where she is with that accent, its painful to listen to.

The D4 types, while annoying, differ to Miriam's. eg Laura Woods, Lucy Kennedy, Mary Kennedy, Twink, you get the message.

TV3 women folk have a different type of accent(they are all sharp accents and most have exactly the same voice). eg(the one that reads the news).
 

Wendy

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Yes,I have heard it used for the penis.And who course for certain lads who are compared with it!

In reply to the poster about the English penchant for 'Celtic Fringe' accents as they call them:It's true they are seen as classless,or at least not 'working class'.This is because Ireland and Scotland were not as heavily industrialised as England.Our accents therefore tend to be assocciated with hills and heather.Accents from the English Midlands and North ,by contrast ,conjure up images of coalmines and cotton mills belching filthy smoke.Or nowadays,presumably,some howling wilderness of a post Thatcherite industrial wasteland.#

But this trick doesnt work for the Ulster accent.Belfast is on tv so often since the Troubles and the hills and heather are conspicuously absent.They far prefer the neutered tones of the Dublin 'bway area' as local djs insist on call it.
My pet hate (esp vis a vis Dub) is the way the women try to ape the errors of grammmar and pronunciation which litter the speech of their - usually English - role models.Glottal stops - leaving out the 'T' - dipthongs -'A' sounds instead of 'O', also glide vowels ? Not sure if it's the right term ; a little 'W' sound barely pronounced at the end of 'O' .

Sorry,sisters,it is usually women - maybe men are not articulate or confident enough to try it yet! I remember the first time I came back from London,some guy gave me a pint.'Ta' I blurted out.That was my cred gone for the rest of the night as my pals indulged in Alf Garnett impersonations.Ha, now they all have birds where they used to have mots.Well ,no ,their sons do actually but you get my drift.Cheers Declan,me ol' mate,you know who you are!!

Or maybe it's because women are more empathetic creatures who make more of an effort to adapt their behaviour to what we think is required of us.
 

femmefatale

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True for you. And research tells us that women are the worst offenders. :p
What for? Amending their accent? I think women are perhaps more inclined to please and appease others. 'Softening' one's accent can often be part of that.
 

Cato

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What for? Amending their accent? I think women are perhaps more inclined to please and appease others. 'Softening' one's accent can often be part of that.
Please, can 'we' resist the temptation to blame this phenomena on the male patriarchal hierarchy.

I love all the regional accents. There are a few that grate but one can hardly 'blame' the speaker for their accent. However, some people are simply careless with their language. Such a willful display of ignorance can be irritating.
 

macdarawhitfield

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What for? Amending their accent? I think women are perhaps more inclined to please and appease others. 'Softening' one's accent can often be part of that.
There may be something in this and Wendy actually agreed with your point.I certainy adapted my accent when I worked in London.Not to posh it up though,quite the reverse.Just as bad though,I became a 'mockney' for a time.I also met 'jockneys' (frae Glasgae y'ken).One old lady I knew had lived in London since WW2 but sounded like she 'd never left Cork city.No appeasing there! But I knew lots of folk who had only recently moved and had 'breac cockney/Irish' patter.
With the new accents I think Nuala O Faolain got it right.She said we all know the Dart accent but we can't really describe it yet.Like some new virus.Ross O'Carroll Kelly has a good stab though , roysh?
 

femmefatale

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Please, can 'we' resist the temptation to blame this phenomena on the male patriarchal hierarchy.

I love all the regional accents. There are a few that grate but one can hardly 'blame' the speaker for their accent. However, some people are simply careless with their language. Such a willful display of ignorance can be irritating.
I don't blame men :). I think it's true though that women like to be accommodating and may more readily adjust their way of speaking to make things easier for the listener. Alternatively, maybe we're just more given to falseness and fakery? :)

I agree with you that accent is different from speech. Good diction, proper enunciation, and correct use of language are important.
 

Cato

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I don't blame men :). I think it's true though that women like to be accommodating and may more readily adjust their way of speaking to make things easier for the listener. Alternatively, maybe we're just more given to falseness and fakery? :)

I agree with you that accent is different from speech. Good diction, proper enunciation, and correct use of language are important.
Yeh! We just agreed on something!
 

Phinaeus

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Logic is the foundation of all grammar. Those who have never mastered grammar (and this website has many of them) cannot be expected to use logic logically.

I despise affectation. However, I do think that a standard pronunciation exists for all languages and that it is incumbent on anyone using that language to attempt to adhere to this pronunciation. This can be done without compromising your accent. When I was going to school it was common to receive elocution lessons. In the past three decades this (along with the teaching of grammar) appears to have become politically incorrect among educators. I would very much like to see it reintroduced to our schools.
 

femmefatale

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There may be something in this and Wendy actually agreed with your point.I certainy adapted my accent when I worked in London.Not to posh it up though,quite the reverse.Just as bad though,I became a 'mockney' for a time.I also met 'jockneys' (frae Glasgae y'ken).One old lady I knew had lived in London since WW2 but sounded like she 'd never left Cork city.No appeasing there! But I knew lots of folk who had only recently moved and had 'breac cockney/Irish' patter.
With the new accents I think Nuala O Faolain got it right.She said we all know the Dart accent but we can't really describe it yet.Like some new virus.Ross O'Carroll Kelly has a good stab though , roysh?
I know that the way I pronounce certain words can throw-off somebody not familiar with my accent. Unfortunately, I can't say those words differently without adopting a different way of speaking. I will do this exceptionally for foreigners whose first language isn't English, but I Can't bring myself to do it in any other context. I speak clearly so hopefully people shouldn't have too much difficulty working out what I'm talking about.
 

femmefatale

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Logic is the foundation of all grammar. Those who have never mastered grammar (and this website has many of them) cannot be expected to use logic logically.

I despise affectation. However, I do think that a standard pronunciation exists for all languages and that it is incumbent on anyone using that language to attempt to adhere to this pronunciation. This can be done without compromising your accent. When I was going to school it was common to receive elocution lessons. In the past three decades this (along with the teaching of grammar) appears to have become politically incorrect among educators. I would very much like to see it reintroduced to our schools.
I think elocution lessons as such are politically incorrect. In my experience, they don't train children to speak clearly but rather to speak 'properly', i.e. to speak with a certain accent, affected if needs be.

I can't say 'late' or 'now' according to the dictates of standard English pronunciation without compromising my accent. I think we need to accept diversity and as long as one speaks coherently and clearly the accent should be irrelevant.
 

Estragon

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Like why they can't say Portlaoise properly.
Or Keady. Dear Jesus, it's Keady to rhyme with Brady, not seedy.

Unless it's in Dublin they really don't seem to give a fiddlers curse how place names are pronounced.
 

louis bernard

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All one has to do is compare interviews with different sportsmen. It’s a joy to listen to Rugby players and to a lesser extent (the better educated) GAA players. Listening to boxers in particular and most association football (I hate the word soccer, so American) players can be painful and cringe inducing.
 

jakdelad

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back in the 60s and 70s everyone on RTE spoke
with such a lovely home counties accent
it was such a delight to hear
my sister fanny always remarked on the calibre of presenters on RTE
now i am afraid those ghastly people at RTE speak very crudely
ruffians now thats whats there ruffians and blackguards
 
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Phinaeus

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I think elocution lessons as such are politically incorrect. In my experience, they don't train children to speak clearly but rather to speak 'properly', i.e. to speak with a certain accent, affected if needs be.

I can't say 'late' or 'now' according to the dictates of standard English pronunciation without compromising my accent. I think we need to accept diversity and as long as one speaks coherently and clearly the accent should be irrelevant.
I listened to a group of Loyalist youths being interviewed last week in the wake of the attacks on the Romanians. I found it extremely difficult to understand what they were saying. I think elocution lessons whereby they retained their south Belfast accents (and identity was very important to this group) but which enabled to make themselves clearly understood would be a good thing. Do you not agree, Femme? Surely violence is the language of the incoherent?

And this is not purely a Northern Irish thing. I have exactly the same difficulty in understanding some accents from parts of West Cork and Kerry.
 

louis bernard

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The accent of the Belfast lower classes is truly horrible, easily the least likable of all the accents in Britain or Ireland.
 


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