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Accenture creams €75+ million in just 3 years from contracts with Revenue Commissioners


Tea Party Patriot

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Better to hire specialist professionals on an outsourced basis in this manner than to add those figures in perpetuity to the public service wage bill.
 

Cellach

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The title says it all:

Revenue paid €90m to management consultancy - The Irish Times - Thu, Dec 13, 2012

So are our famous civil service worth what they pay them ? Or are we to rely on certain highly placed and influential consultants to get work done ?

cYp
I know of an individual that worked for Accenture in the Revenue commission. Apparently they spend half the time sitting around doing nothing. For young graduates employed at Revenue, either as management or technology consultants the job is soul destroyingly boring because they simply do not have enough to do. Accenture isn't the only management consultancy company in there either.

By the way anyone familiar with my posting history will not that I am not an anti-public service fanatic. I just get really annoyed hearing about stuff like this and Gilmore's four advisors. €75 million for God's sake.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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As a public servant, I can confirm that much of the in-house I.T. offering is, eh, sub optimal.
 

Cellach

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Plenty of out of work IT professionals who could have been hired to do the job instead, me thinks.
To be honest Gerhard that is nonsense. If you are going to get a job down you hire a pre-established team to do it, rather than having to go through the recruitment process etc. The problem in my eyes is paying one business €75 million over the course of three years. An Irish company could have been found to do it at least. Accenture had their biggest intake of new graduates ever this year. And no wonder, seeing the amount of business the Irish government is throwing their way.
 

asset test

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Revenue in the firing line. They have been given the poisoned chalice of the PT. Huh. More outsourcing? Yes I would say.

To be fair, they leave you alone if you play ball. But are ruthless if you don't.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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The unemployed IT professional could be recruited on a fixed term contract basis.
Projects like this require large coordinated teams with many areas of expertise, also there aren't too many unemployed IT professionals, we actually have a shortage of them.

Employing random individuals for a large project is not good management.
 

DownTheyGo

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Accenture, the company that previously made up part of Arthur Anderson before going separate ways, used by revenue :)

I strongly suspect the next Accenture bid for the business will be sa good deal more competitive compared to the current terms.
 

cyberianpan

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asset test

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In some ways I think Revenue will be sunk with the PT. they will need a lot of outside help anyway.

They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

Have to say any interactions with them have been courteous and efficient.
 

gerhard dengler

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Projects like this require large coordinated teams with many areas of expertise, also there aren't too many unemployed IT professionals, we actually have a shortage of them.

Employing random individuals for a large project is not good management.
And hiring large consultancy firms is "good management"?
Good financial and cost control management?

I'm familiar with large IT projects and what is required in terms of manpower and co-ordination of same.

I'm suggesting that in the light of the straitened finances of this country that the dilemma between good cost control and getting the job done, might persuade the public service to look at recruiting unemployed IT staff to work on and manage these type of projects instead of spending €90 million for "turnkey services" from the likes of operators like Accenture.
 

Cellach

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And hiring large consultancy firms is "good management"?
Good financial and cost control management?

I'm familiar with large IT projects and what is required in terms of manpower and co-ordination of same.

I'm suggesting that in the light of the straitened finances of this country that the dilemma between good cost control and getting the job done, might persuade the public service to look at recruiting unemployed IT staff to work on and manage these type of projects instead of spending €90 million for "turnkey services" from the likes of operators like Accenture.
If they can't build the system with the people that they have, how do you propose that they go about interviewing to take on individual computer programmers from amongst the unemployed? If you want to hire someone to do something, it's a good idea to have someone interviewing who actually knows what the interviewee is talking about. It is quite clear that this is already beyond much of the civil service. Best practice is to hire a firm to do it. Multiple bidders, cheapest offer wins. I believe beyond any doubt that a better bid than €90 million over three years could have been found.
 

gerhard dengler

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If they can't build the system with the people that they have, how do you propose that they go about interviewing to take on individual computer programmers from amongst the unemployed? If you want to hire someone to do something, it's a good idea to have someone interviewing who actually knows what the interviewee is talking about. It is quite clear that this is already beyond much of the civil service. Best practice is to hire a firm to do it. Multiple bidders, cheapest offer wins. I believe beyond any doubt that a better bid than €90 million over three years could have been found.
There is no doubt that a more competitive bid could have been secured rather than the €90 million Accenture bid.
It would appear that the bid process for this project was during 2006/2007 given the time line of payments made to Accenture from 2008-2011.

I take your point about having experts in place to conduct the interviewing/vetting of candidates for a role. It might well be the case that the civil service doesn't have programmers/IT implementation staff of their own.

What was the project anyhow?
Implementation of an ERP system?
I would have assumed that there is at least a skeleton staff of IT professionals in the CS?
 

NYCKY

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It's good practice to bring in independent consultants with global experience to handle large projects such as this.

Involving the government usually leads to cost overruns and more cronyism, nepotism and incompetence. Just look at PPARS, what did that cost and what is it still costing? That one was a textbook case of government incompetence.
 

DownTheyGo

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It's good practice to bring in independent consultants with global experience to handle large projects such as this.

Involving the government usually leads to cost overruns and more cronyism, nepotism and incompetence. Just look at PPARS, what did that cost and what is it still costing? That one was a textbook case of government incompetence.
Textbook case of government incompetence, how so?
 

cyberianpan

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It's good practice to bring in independent consultants with global experience to handle large projects such as this.

Involving the government usually leads to cost overruns and more cronyism, nepotism and incompetence. Just look at PPARS, what did that cost and what is it still costing? That one was a textbook case of government incompetence.
Deloitte were the consultants on PPARS , and I haven't heard of them taking a loss on it ?
 
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